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PsychoCynic Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1795 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Dust in the Wind Video |
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Again, this is mainly directed toward judges, but I'd appreciate comments from anyone.
Can someone please tell me what I could have done to improve this video? http://lostvideo.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6815.
I really feel as if I have been progressingly gettting WORSE at vidding and I can't seem to figure out what it is that I'm doing that is so terrible.
I'll take any constructive criticism I can get because it seems that I obviously need it.
Thank you for your time.
-PsychoCynic _________________
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rbexter93 Expert Vidder
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 3270
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no judge (as you can guess), I have only a silver council pick to my name but it's always easier to review and know whats wrong with a vid than making a good one, but if you want my two cents...
I loved your editing, it was matching the lyrics and nice and short.
I wasn't sure about your effects, I don't know the look you were going for but I didn't like it. I dunno, maybe the opening on the record player is overused? As I said I'm no judge and you may find my comments a load of bull but... _________________
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PsychoCynic Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1795 Location: United States
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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No, not at all, rbexter93, I completely am looking for anyone’s two cents, and your time to watch and review my video means a lot to me.
In reply to your comment about the effects, I was going for a “Desmond-in-despair†feel. He was thinking over his life, love, and all the things he’s done. It was supposed to be a nostalgic-like feeling. I guess I didn’t completely convey that. In all honestly, though, I had also just gotten some of those effects and wanted to feature them the best I could.
Even if the record player is overused, would it really be so awful that it would jeopardize my chances at getting a silver/gold pick?
Again, I really appreciate your thoughts, rbexter93. I just wish I had word from the “horse’s mouth†so I could really know if your likes and complaints were the same ones that got me disqualified from a Council pick. _________________
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rbexter93 Expert Vidder
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 3270
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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yep same with my videos, I really expected a silver but got none _________________
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Polarbear Expert Vidder
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to know why your video wasn't given gold or silver you can post in Ruth's thread here: http://lostvideo.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5358
I deleted the last one Hopefully you guys can get this one up and running again. _________________
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PsychoCynic Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1795 Location: United States
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't mean to be pressing or annoying by resurrecting this issue, but I read Hobbes's Siver and Gold CPs Thread and tried to identify the mistakes he mentioned with this video, and I can't see what it is I did wrong. I have a few ideas of what it might be (was it the overuse of effects? Quality of the video? Mood of the song?), but I'm not exactly certain.
While I do accept anyone's ideas on what I could've done to improve this, I'd really appreciate the thoughts of one of the judges since they WERE the ones that said "yes" and "no" to certain parts.
Thank you again. _________________
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Hobbes Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 11208 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'd say this vid deserves a silver, but I'm just one judge. You pulled off a really nice, structured story, with as much beat use as could be mustered with the song. Also, you tried some effects out, although I don't think they really turned out as well as they should have, probably because of your stupid editor... grrrr..
As far as I can see, there are a few thigns that probably contributed to this vid not getting anything from the judges:
1. It went over the same stuff over and over throughtout the vid without really straying to actually give one "woah" moment... i.e. no climax at all really It just really seems like a montage of random Desmond clips that way, which kinda sucks because they weren't
2. Bad quality and messy editing - though probably just your editor's fault, and though we try nto to count them much, can still really impact the general thoughts of a viewer when you're watching and you already have the feeling that the clips are random, or the vid itself is boring.
3. I just said it before, the vid itself comes off as kinda boring, which is a shame.
I feel like we've let you down on this one It's tough to see that you actually put a lot of thought into the vid from the first viewing, so it really seemed like one of the hundreds of vids which are mainly random-clippers. I'd say this deserves a solid silver. Why not gold? The reasons I listed above, and the fact there isn't really all that much originality unfortunately. But don't feel like you're getting worse, I think it's just that since the Silver CPs came in, we've kinda bumped up the Gold a bit. And that goes for both this vid and the last vid. I can see you put a lot of thought and work into your vids so I'm really really sorry that this happened. You're a really good vidder, so please don't be discouraged just from this. |
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Shankle Advanced Vidder
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 1476 Location: England
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Well I really liked this actually. I personally would have gone silver. Although it did seem quite random at times, i still liked the whole feel of it. I didn't notice any messy clips...but i think you overdid the effects at the beginning. It looks to me like you wanted to use the effects to make the video more powerful, but to be honest you have a lot of different ones in there, and it actually diminishes the quality. Less is more, so try to use one effect at most, as a sort of theme.
But like i said, I personally enjoyed watching it. A lovely song/character pairing. _________________
*hearts* Aislynn, Kaja, Rachel and Steph
*Rips whatzit" |
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PsychoCynic Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1795 Location: United States
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the lengthy and well-thought-out explanation, Hobbes. You always are coming to my assistance in the Self Help Section here. I agree that because of the song, the video may have come out as boring. And as for the quality of the clips, I only found two versions of "Live Together, Die Alone" - one was in AVI (which my WMM won't accept ) and one was in WMV (which was used in this video). I guess there wasn't much I could have done about that.
Ed, thanks for your input too. I'm glad you liked the video and I'll try to downsize on the effects next time. Perhaps I should have just used them in the middle of the song where the instrumentals really popped up. I'll keep that in mind next time.
Thanks all. _________________
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Aislynn Council Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 35782 Location: Sawyerville, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Dust in the Wind Video |
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PsychoCynic wrote: | I really feel as if I have been progressingly gettting WORSE at vidding and I can't seem to figure out what it is that I'm doing that is so terrible.
I'll take any constructive criticism I can get because it seems that I obviously need it. |
Aw, hun, don't feel that way! Sometimes the stars just don't seem to line up for a particular vid, I don't really know why...
Anyway, I went back and had a look at this vid again, with an eye on what I thought worked well for it and what might have detracted from it. (If you're still interested, that is! )
The detractors first:
1. WMM is a drama queen and offers no way to nicely blend in clips with effects on them with those that don't, causing it to look like one clip "slams" into an effect sometimes. That's totally nothing you can help. But the best way to counteract that is to pair those particular effects (like color filters) with a song with a defined beat, so that it looks like you're emphasizing the beat with these hard changes. Since this is a more mellow song with no hard drumbeats or strong guitar or whatever running through it, those "slams" looked a bit out of place on occasion.
2. There's nothing at all wrong with using effects but the key is for them to serve a clear purpose. Such as when you black and whited scenes to indicate they're a flashback. But when other effects start coming in (old film, the one that looks kinda of like watercolor, etc. ) it's critical to make it crystal clear what their point is. Are they denoting flashbacks, too? Are they particular moments of despair? What are they trying to show us? If that's not clear, then it looks like effects for effects' sake.
3. This one's minor. Losing consistency is an easy way to interrupt the story you're building. We see Kelvin dead at 1:27, then they're fighting at 1:53. That could be explained as the fight being Desmond flashing back to the fight but I wasn't sure if that was what I was supposed to think about it.
Now, for the good stuff:
1. I loved the quick cuts to the chords at about 1:04 and throughout the rest of the song when they occurred. That shows attention to the music and there's nothing I like better in a vid than feeling the music and the images really coming together like that.
2. The song was awesome for an angsty Desmond vid. The theme of the song just went so well for Desmond's story. Plus, it doesn't hurt that I love the song anyway...
3. There were some excellent clip choices here: Desmond's face at "I close my eyes" at :27 (a breath-takingly good "opening shot" for the lyrics when they start. He looks so in despair and it goes so well with the song), the way the picture flies out at "pass before my eyes" at :41 with Desmond startledly waking up (niiiiiiice ), the System Failure overlaid over his face at 1:10 (great visual image ), the entire set of "dust in the wind" repeats, especially starting at 2:46 with Desmond reading Penny's letter were excellent, building up to that overlay of the gun while he's sitting there looking so despairing. I loved how he mouthed that he loved her too, then you slowed down the letter being folded so that it served as the final shot, like closing the cover on a book.
Anyway, it was a fine vid that just had a couple of things not working for it as well as they could have. But you can tell you put a lot of thought into it and that's one of the most important things a vidder can do, IMO. When you can feel the care and craft that somebody put into a vid, that automatically raises it up a notch. I'm sorry that this one didn't come together better for you. Like I said, some of that was WMM's fault and you should have no problem compensating for its "slamming" just by pairing certain effects with songs with more defined beats (or by carefully placing them so that they occur on some other sort of audio "clue").
Don't give up! I've enjoyed all of your previous vids ("Gangsta's Paradise" is still a favorite of mine! ) and I'm eager to see what you come up with in the future.
Hope that was helpful in some small way. If not... Uh...
*leaves basket of cookies*
Can't go wrong with cookies! |
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Polarbear Expert Vidder
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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I would say it is probably a silver vid. I really like the song you used it was a very original choice. Some of the effects were a lil overdone and random but I have seen worse. When you're matching up clips try and make them not only pay attention to the lyrics but also follow the mood/beat of the song and also that they make sense and 'feel' right. At the end of the day you only have your perception of what works or not so trust your instincts and ask yourself does that fit.
I have to say we probably favor fast paced, upbeat songs when they are done with appropiate beat use cause they are usually more fun to watch. Personally I also really like moody, sad and twisted vids aswell so I did enjoy this and would give it a silver. _________________
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PsychoCynic Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1795 Location: United States
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to both Aislynn and Polarbear.
Aislynn, thank you for your helpful hints and tips and for specifically telling me which parts you liked and disliked. It helped me understand what it is that the judges are looking for. And, of course, I will take your cookies because they are too delicious to refuse
Quote: | 3. This one's minor. Losing consistency is an easy way to interrupt the story you're building. We see Kelvin dead at 1:27, then they're fighting at 1:53. That could be explained as the fight being Desmond flashing back to the fight but I wasn't sure if that was what I was supposed to think about it. |
To provide my explanation of that, at the 1:27 mark, I was showing Desmond recalling how both his and Kelvin's lives were "dust in the wind." At the 1:53, where they were fighting, it was part of the sequence that I wanted to do in that instrumental bit. I wanted to provide a whole "summary" of Desmond's life thus far and an important part in that was him taking Kelvin's life. I guess it would have been better if the 1:27 scene would have proceeded the 1:53 scenes instead of preceding it.
Paul, I'm also very grateful for your input as well. I'm glad you thought the song was an original choice. I agree with you, and Hobbes, Ed, and Aislynn, that the effects were used haphazardly. Like I said, I had just gotten them and I wanted to test them out. I'll look out for things like that in the future. I'm also glad you liked the vid for the most part.
I have a question though. For the most part, the judges have said this deserved a silver pick, yet it got none. How many judges needed to vote for a silver? I'm sorry, Hobbes explained it to me once, but I'm still a little unclear on the details. _________________
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Hobbes Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 11208 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Three. Once a vid has three votes and the vote is determined, it's marked and ready to go. I voted on it originally as a "None", but I actually changed my vote when I saw this the second time, leaving it at 1 Silver to 2 None. I wouldn't have a problem with awarding this vid a Silver CP if another one of the judges who voted on it is willing to change their vote, but that's their decision, and I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to say just who said judges were But you've got my vote! And thanks for being so coperative |
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PsychoCynic Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 1795 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I get it now.
Only three judges originally vote on a video. I had assumed ALL the judges voted and if three voted silver, then the vid would get a silver pick. When in reality, only three judges vote and it's the majority rules (2 out of 3), right?
Well, thanks for changing your mind on my vid, Hobbes. I suppose my work has the tendency to do that do you.
I'm probably pushing my luck, but any other judge willing to help me out a bit? _________________
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Hobbes Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 11208 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Only three judges originally vote on a video. I had assumed ALL the judges voted and if three voted silver, then the vid would get a silver pick. When in reality, only three judges vote and it's the majority rules (2 out of 3), right? |
Pretty much. A vid doesn't get by without at LEAST 3 judges voting on it though, and sometimes there are cases where many of us vote on each vid. Unfortunately, if we wanted to get all judges voting on each vid, it would be a very, VERY long wait .
I'd say we all pretty-much have the same ideals on where a vid stands though. We rarely end up disagreeing over a vid, so even when only three of us get to a vid, we're all in that vote.
Quote: |
Well, thanks for changing your mind on my vid, Hobbes. I suppose my work has the tendency to do that do you. |
lol I saw your careful thought in the video, and your dedication outside of the video, and couldn't help myself |
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