Lost Video Island

thefilmchick

Do not read this thread if you do not want to be spoiled! Finale conversation is unspoiled in this thread, for the two of you who live in a cave (full of names) and have not yet seen the finale.)

Anyone else care to chime in on the not-quite-as-satisfied end of things? Join me; your pod is ripening even now.

I opened this thread so the general discussion thread wouldn't be interrupted or disrupted by the likes of relative Debbie Downers like me.

1) What the hell sort of ending was that? I mean, seriously? Way to completely throw out any notion of science, rationality, or logical thinking about the whole thing. I know, "Everything will be scientifically explained" has been a joke for years now, but... really, that was one hell of a non-scientific lack of an explanation..

2) So what was the zombiefication anyway, other than a cheap 'let's get Sayid out of the way, and make Claire ker-razy for the hell of it' device? (To add to that, selfishly speaking: Why was half the cast offscreen for half of the damn finale, only to show up at the end? Lame. I thought things were building to a final confrontation with badassery, and... yeah, nothing.)

3) I could have spent minutes not looking up at the screen during all those slo-mo 'meaningful looks' sequences.

4) Did anyone else think a lot of the finale (after Jack fought Locke) was, well, boring? It felt like it was missing a third act. There was no real punch to the final third unless you bought into all the religious symbolism. Speaking as someone who's not religious, I thought that was a cheap way of using it. Even if I were religious, I'd have thought it was maudlin and way too soft-pedaled of an ending anyway.

If you want to critique my critiques, feel free, but if you feel the same way I do, this is the thread for you! Don't get me wrong: I didn't hate the finale in the same way I hated certain episodes this season, but it felt only average to me. This show has produced a lot better television than that, and it felt like a cheap way to go.
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Debbie · Expert Vidder Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 4987

no I'm with you Kate. a few things I did like but overal I was it lackluster.

I felt as if I was watching another show. I felt myself thinking "what was the point?"

So we have all these awesome mysteries etc etc and they end it with "oh and then at some point, they all died" well, of course they would have, and of course they wuld have met each other again....what has this got to do with what we've been watching the past 6 years?

They did nothing to prove to me they planned any of this. Infact, it conviced me more that they didn't plan it, and if they did....not well enough. It was rushed and yet so....lifeless at the same time.

Sawyer & Juliet reuinion didn't seem to have any....fireworks...it was lacking something.

and I'm sorry but what about David? so he doesn't exist what? I still find myself so very confused about all of this? what actually got answered here at all?

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Charlies_Innocence · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject:

So, I loved the finale, so I guess I don't really belong in this thread, lol, but I just wanted to come throw this in here:

Kate, I don't mean offense and I don't mean to cause an argument or anything, but you're hoping for scientific answers and I just don't think Lost was ever about science.

I mean, it's always been about science vs. faith, and I think faith has always been the one that wins out. And I know you're not religious, so I don't even mean that necessarily religiously.

I do realize, though, looking back, that a lot of our questions went unanswered. A little disappointing, but overall I think it was awesome.

Just my two cents.

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icon by becca

SuperKC · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject:

I was really disappointed in the whole sideshow=purgatory and the idea that they were all moving on to "heaven." Christian Shephard literally shepherded them to the big glowy doorway to heaven. Just. WHAT? As a mostly non-religious person, I was extremely disappointed in that as well. For the rest of the finale, I haven't formed an opinion on that, but those last 15 minutes or so were just WTF?

I know that a lot of people are just happy because their ships got back together in the afterlife. But as someone who was minimally invested in most of those ships, and actively disliked some of them based on principle alone, that isn't something that's gonna make me forgive all of this show's many failings.

Here's a review from gawker, the reviewer was disappointed as well, although I may not agree with everything they said:
http://gawker.com/5545877/

This comment was pretty funny though:

Hobbes · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject:

I said something along these lines in the main thread, but I wouldn't mind being a little more blunt here..
Edit: I also agree with that review KC posted. There are so many cop-outs this show has done. I guess I kinda just didn't expect anything else. And there are many ways the ending could have been done better.

All said and done, Lost was not an intelligent show. It simply wasn't. They made up everything as they went along, there was no deeper message, there was no grand story. It is rife with painful plotholes, stupid resolutions, and hacky answers - just aimed to further whatever plot point the writers wanted to push that week. Their final "answers" were exactly what the writers promised they weren't (purgatory), rife with unexpected religious themes as an easy out.

This show's plot has been a mess since season 2, when they actually had to start answering their questions. They had no answers, they had no plan, they had no idea what they were doing and anyone who thought they did has been tricked. This is a statement barely up for intelligent debate.

But... for some reason, despite it all, I kinda still loved this show. I think at some point they stopped caring about answering questions, because they knew we could never be satisfied, and instead tried for something else. I think in the end the greatest thing this show has offered lies beyond the shitty plot. The characters, moods and themes stirred up by this thing are why we've been so attached to it, and make it unique among shows. It's kinda a crappy consolation, but it's something. And it's the only way I can explain how I still somehow really enjoyed this season, and the show in general. This silly show has reached for the stars with every episode, trying its best to accomplish something greater than most tv. And even though it has failed, the effort it has made is what endears us to it. There is an amazing show in Lost, hidden between all its crazy. And its that show I choose to remember.

thefilmchick · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject:

Debbie: Agreed with a lot of it. A lot of the reunions (especially Shayid, though I adore Sayid and don't mind Shannon as much as some) did not have seem to have any punch to them (Charlie and Claire didn't work for me, and I don't mind either of them, either, although I don't particularly love either). They all basically felt lackluster and rushed. Hell, Hurley and Libby in his episode had more gravitas for me than any of the reunions this episode, because at least they got more of a story behind theirs.

Polarbear · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject:

It annoys me when the show keeps throwing a bone to one particular religion. They did have a hindu god on the wall I think in the church though

I think that was there to represent that it was a place for everyone.
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eloramoon · Council Member Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 9077

I really loved the finale, and I say that as literally the most un-religious a person can possibly be.

I wasn't offended by the, as Kate aptly put it in our conversation, "heavy-handed" religious theme: I know the world I live in, and I can at least appreciate the beauty of the idea they put forth, and the fact that they at least tried to incorporate more than just Christianity. I also didn't find the literal use of Christian Shephard to be cheesy, given that greater context.

However, over the course of the past 37 hours, all the questions left unanswered have started popping back into my head. Some of them, I realized, are ultimately unimportant (who built the temple and the statue, and why?) but others (what was up with the cabin and the ash?) were emphasized as being important, but then totally abandoned without resolution.

What I've realized, though, is that this is not a flaw of the finale. These are questions that should have been answered at earlier points of this season and previous seasons. For example, the tedious amount of time spent on the temple and zombification of Sayid could have been put to better use, or at least partially better use, answering some of those questions. Dogen was such an epic disappointment. Here was this mysterious man who probably had all the answers, but all we got were excuses and long brooding looks in response to the questions he was already being asked. Kind of a waste, in my opinion.

So, looking back, yeah it's a little disappointing. But, I think what Warren said in his last paragraph was absolutely perfect:

littleton_pace · Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:23 pm Post subject:

Hobbes · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:17 am Post subject:

further proof that Lost's plot was ridiculous:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

Brooke · Expert Vidder Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 24129

I hate the fact that Ben was redeemed. Great character and actor but Ben should have been a whisper on that island along with Michael.

I never got why he was redeemed at all. He didn't deserve it, he was an opportunist who did things that suited him.

MIB promised him the island so he went bat shit and was all like "LETS KILL! KILL WHO!?" And then when he realized MIB was just yanking his chain because Ben was dumb enough to believe him he's all like "I am on Jacks' side now." But I believe strongly that if the island was still going to be given to Ben, Ben wouldn't be on Jack's side.

Ben did AWFUL things and the writers always found a way for us to like him, and then he'd do something equally awful and it's just a runaround thing with him.

I never viewed Ben as a good.

Because a man pays army men to go on an island an capture you and they kill your kid doesn't give you the right to want to go kill their kid. I hated "He doesn't get to save his daughter." Because if memory serves me correct Ben was ABLE to save her and refused.

Great character, but I hate that he was given so many chances and then he'd just turn around and be awful all over again.

Another reason Ben got on my nerves was that he treated the Losties like shit (Excuse my language). But he did. When he really shouldn't have he just had these jealous issues where if someone was more special then he was he wanted them dead. IE, John Locke. John Locke may forgive him but I still can't.

Done rant.

Polarbear · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:27 pm Post subject:

Ben is stuck in limbo and didn't end up in the church which I thought was great. I also like to think he turned it around somehwhat in his remaining years as number 2 under Hugo.

I have felt like you in the past that Ben deserved to die but I just really love the character so much that I can let it fly. It's not like he got a pass into heaven which I really appreciated. Now he can take care of Danielle and Alex which is a really fitting way for him to go.
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eloramoon · Council Member Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 9077

Here's my take on the Ben thing:

Obviously at some point in his childhood, Jacob thought Ben might be a candidate, hence Richard allowing him to eventually join the Others. Ben was led to believe that he was special and that it was his job to protect the island, Jacob, and his people. Somewhere along the way, the MIB began to give Richard (Jacob's number two) orders pretending to be Jacob. Whether Jacob didn't object because he couldnt or didn't know, or because he simply chose not to--we'll never know. But, I'm pretty sure that orders such as "the purge" must have come from MIB, as well as the orders to gather the people on Jacob's list. But any way you slice it, Ben thought he was doing what he had to do to protect the island, Jacob, and his people. He saw the consequences of his actions as being sacrifices to "the greater good". Even when he let Alex die, he was choosing the island over his daughter.

I'm not saying that any of this means that Ben was actually good--the whole point of having free will is that he could have very easily chosen not to do the bad things, and he chose not to even question the orders he was given. There was also, obviously, some level of him wanting to protect his own position, as well. But, all of this together, I think, shows that Ben wasn't really bad in the same way that others were bad. He was manipulated and used and led to believe the bad things he was doing were all for a greater purpose. So, for that I think, redemption for him was a little easier to come by.

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Charlies_Innocence · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject:

I kind of wonder if Ben was ever really on MIB's side...

Cuz he was with him, I guess, in that one episode (What They Died For?) but the whole time he still had the walkie-talkie to communicate with Miles and Richard...

I dunno. Ben's just such a convoluted character, I never know what his motives are. But I love him.

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Hobbes · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject:

I'm almost certain Ben was "pulling a Snape" there in What They Died For, trying to gain MIB's trust by killing Widmore, mixed in with a little personal revenge, trying to stop him from telling MIB that secret, and self-preservation since if he didn't do what MIB wanted he'd be killed too. So I wouldn't count that for or against Ben's alignment.