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All-Encompassing Theories

 
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Hobbes
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject: All-Encompassing Theories Reply with quote

I have an all-encompassing theory now

The island is an illegal secret testing facility for experimentation on humans. The Dharma Initiative's goals are overall what we'd consider good. To extend the human lives, to end world hunger, etc etc. However, they aren't afraid to do whatever is necessary, including experimentation on humans, to do what is needed for the greater good.
The survivors are the rat cage. They are the material the Others need for their experiments, and pull from for necessary experiments (thus why the odd child is so important, because they don't see many, and use them for special experiments, or as recruits to the Dharma Initiative like Alex). The survivors themselves, as a group, are not being tested on right now, but are just the base the others can pull from when they need.
Everything else on the island is designed to keep the survivors from fighting back, and to keep them busy. The hatches are merely just little semi-abandoned bases the others used to use, but have converted for practical means. The Arrow is a storage facility, as Goodwin said, the Swan is designed to keep the subject occupied, at least when they're just small numbers of people (like Desmond) because they can't possibly leave when scared into pressing it every two hours, and the new Caduceus hatch is the Other's base for their fear operations and just a small provisions camp. I suspect we'll be likely to see a underwater hatch soon enough to sink and destroy any incoming or outgoing boat traffic, whether via the Dharma shark, or whatever, and would have probably been used on the rafties if they'd escaped Mr. Friendly's attempt to get Walt, a valuable test subject, first.

The monster is a swarm of nanobots: an unrealistic technically, but acceptable with TV and movies and that sort of thing, Hollywood-style thing to grab our attention. It does a have a purpose of keeping the survivors afraid to explore the island. I speculate that it may not have actually killed the pilot either, but it was part of a "skit" to make them think it was deadly.
The backup for all of this towards keeping the survivors from going out there is the others and their costume patrol, along with the voices in the woods, designed to make it seem like there is an all-knowing menacing foe out there to get them if they go out. I doubt it was planned to happen, but ended up due to special circumstances that I will now list:

The plan was to split the plane into two camps which then could be weeded down easier without worrying about a large group. They could then infiltrate them, learn what subjects would be suitable for particular tests, and put them on the "list" before taking them from the camp. Their plan worked out well in the Tailies side of the island, but I doubt they expected anyone to find out about the infiltration, or for them to regroup with the Fusies section. In the fusies section, Ethan was driven off before he could complete the list, as we learned today, so they didn't know who to take. Furthermore, when Claire was recovered, and the fusies killed Ethan when he came back to try and get her back, their connection was lost so no more info. They only knew their names because Ethan knew their names, and they may have gotten ahold of some Oceanic stuff, but otherwise, no.
This causes a problem, because not only have they not managed to take these people down to a more manageable number, but with nothing to fight them really, except a monster that doesn't do much more than scare, they are starting to find stuff out. Some of them are happening to find hidden hatches and step in on their experiment with Desmond.

The plane crash was preorchestrated. They wanted it to turn around and change course by cutting its radio, thus meaning they couldn't pinpoint where it landed and go looking near the island. The actual crash was either planned with inside men in the form of the pilot (explaining the monster "skit") and flight attendants (explaining Cindy's disappearance as well) and a bomb which caused the plane split apart, or the simpler way: the monster crashed it for them. Whatever the case may be, it turns out with a fresh supply of assorted survivors in a semi-realistic fashion so they don't "think" it's too weird that they survived (because they would be REALLY suspicious if everyone lived, of course) but there is still a good enough amount to have lots of fodder for future experiments. With the pilot and flight attendant in on it, you can also lie about the height of the plane or whatever, thus causing a "safer" crash.
ALSO: could someone check for me the deleted scene form the DVD with Claire and the pilot? If she mentions Catch a Falling Star in that, that’s my final piece of evidence

The polar bear and horse can be attributed to simply being experiments, or in the case of the polar bear, just designed to keep the survivors in fear, and confused as to what's going on. Alternatively, they could be from a zoo plane that crashed or something similar. Likely a red herring in my view though.

Speaking of red herrings: the connections in the flashbacks, the numbers showing up places, and any other unexplainable supernatural stuff. The numbers themselves I speculate to be the Dharma Initiative's code for the island, especially since when entered in a certain format equal coordinates just about at the right spot in the south pacific. They're on everything as a sort of "brand" similar to the dharma logo brands, used to signify that the piece of equipment should be at that location. It's also the code for the vaccination, and is entered during the computer experiments more as a memory tool for Desmond to remember his vaccinations than anything.

Speaking of vaccinations! We finally get to the meat of it all: the incident and the sickness. So far we have no proof whatsoever that it is real, only Danielle's word, but that does not mean it is the sickness per say, and that it wasn't an isolated incident that got her crew sick. Perhaps the incident was a release of a disease pathogen onto the island that infected. Though whether that pathogen stayed forever or just at that time 16 years ago is still unknown. Which means either the vaccinations for Desmond and Claire are simply devices to scare them into what they want (such as for Desmond not to leave the hatch, or Claire to believe they only have enough vaccine for her baby) or as a custom to actually save their lives, either as just a custom that doesn't need doing anymore, as the pathogens aren't there anymore, but it's just as a precaution, or as something everyone needs, and we just haven't seen the signs in the normal survivors yet. I personally think the device route is most likely, as it gets what they want: fear.

As for the black rock, the rope bridges at weird places, Locke's legs, visions and the like, I like to go with the ideas given on the show. The Black Rock was thrown on the island by a twister, as Arzt said and the bridges built by Rousseau’s team or the others, Locke just happened to get his legs back by a miracle and the impact of falling that far, and the visions are just a phenomenon like they are in our society now.

In regard to mysteries of the hatch, the concrete wall holds a nuclear generator which supplies power to the hatch, and possibly other hatches and the radio tower. The radio tower transmits the numbers as they are entered into the computer by Desmond and his predecessors, telling supply ships where to head out in the process, and in the meantime attracting some ships thinking it's a distress signal for further experimentation. (hazy, but that'll do lol). And the computer is more than just an entry for the numbers, as seen by Michael, it's a communication device once used, but then was retired as just the number entry code. However, it was used again to lure Michael into a trap so that the others could lay down the law and scare some sense into Jack and Locke, hoping for them to back down. Henry Gale is obviously another Other out to spy, even if he manages to actually have a balloon out there, I suspect it was planted by the Others for a full backstory the survivors can't deny.

With so much to hide, the Dharma Initiative has to keep all matter of being found completely covered. A artificial magnetic field probably can't really help much in this way, but probably enough in the Hollywood way to make it a valuable addition to this.

What all the theories on the experiments come down to is: why would Dharma spend BILLIONS of dollars for what they are doing here? Surely even a private research facility isn't worth that much. However, it seems that with the added bonus of above-the-law testing, particularly on live human test subjects, the prospect of a science research facility away from the law seems worth the costs. Especially if they have the disillusion that what they are doing is for the good of mankind. What's a few lives here or there when in the long run they can "Save the world" as Kelvin put it.

What really just can't be solved in any way by this though, is how does Eko's brother and that plane fit into all of it? How could that possibly happen? Also, what exact experiments are these others doing, and how are the people being used? What is the trait that makes a person “good” for the experiments? Maybe we will find out the answers to these questions, but for now I have what I have.




Let me know if you have a counter arguement or anythign that doesn't work with that I've got and I'll change thigns around. Likewise, if oyu want to post your all-encompassing theories, or have one simillar to mine but with some revisions, go ahead! Ug... tired. but it's cool to actually get everything fitting together for once... kinda.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the monster is indeed nanobots it is likely to do something not just float around. It does rip trees down so it does have some physical force. I also think it did take the pilot and I don't agree with your theory the crew were in on it. Why would they risk being in a plane crash? It is possible it was staged behind the scenes by Dharma though. *cue the dodgy dharma symbol on the plane* lol I don't buy that though. I think the monster brought the plane down. I base this mainly on the flying thing we see in the pilot.

I also still think dharma was testing animals. I think the zoo plane theory is out the window. They are stamped with the symbol and the polar bears in the instruction video etc. I think its safe to say dharma did exist. Whether or not the others are still acting as dharma agents is in question though.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Alvar Hanso is looking for the secret to everlasting life. Call it a hunch or me being gullable about the life extenstion project on the hanso site. I also think the he is very likely to be Alvar. Imagine if it was Marvin tho that would be even creepier if he turned up.
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Rocksiren
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Dharma's intentions are good, how do they justify killing all those people in the crash?
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Hobbes
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Dharma's intentions are good, how do they justify killing all those people in the crash?

Let me give you my creepy answer to explain what I mean by 'good intentions":
How can they justify letting an opportunity like this to save so many people with the research they develop? Wouldn't that be a crime to deny such knowledge? The people on the plane died to convince the survivors that the crash was not a set up, and not become suspicious, so that they can be sacrificed for the greater good in the name of science! It's just amatter of willpower. How much are you willing to sacrifice for the greater good? One plane full of people to save millions, or sit back and do nothing and let the greatest opportunity man has just slip by.

Yeah you're probabyl right on the crew in on it thing Paul, from what we've been given it doesn't particularily look that way, but I can see how they could twist it to do so, so I threw it out there as a possibility. But I am very confident they had somehting to do with it, especially after the whole mobile thing last night.
As for the monster, I distinctly remeber it being confirmed on the Fuselage way back that that little blip was just an editing mistake meant to merely be a piece of shrapnel flying through the air, and someone else has also seen the same story, but I don't have any proof because when I searched back for it I couldn't find it anywhere. if that means it was a figment of my imagination, I just wasn't able to find it, or it was deleted, I don't know. But I do know that the Channel 4 site uses it as a monster reference, so maybe they will use it as monster proof, even if it wasn't originally intended to be it.
Though, I do think it might have crashed the plane, and I only go with nanobots because it's the only non-fictional answer I can think of that still has physical mass allowing it to0 do what it does. it's just not programmed to hurt people (except the pilot, because he could provide too much information, unless it was indeed a skit that is...)

Quote:

I also still think dharma was testing animals. I think the zoo plane theory is out the window. They are stamped with the symbol and the polar bears in the instruction video etc. I think its safe to say dharma did exist. Whether or not the others are still acting as dharma agents is in question though.

I kinda agree ith the animals, though the zoo thing is still possible, especially if the animals aren't being tested on now. And we've only seen the mark on the shark, nothing else, at least not clearly.

Quote:

I have a sneaking suspicion that Alvar Hanso is looking for the secret to everlasting life. Call it a hunch or me being gullable about the life extenstion project on the hanso site. I also think the he is very likely to be Alvar. Imagine if it was Marvin tho that would be even creepier if he turned up.

totally with you on all of that.
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Fan4Lost
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys all make good points, and every time I read someone's theories I agrre with some and disagree with others. But Warren, you said a lot of things that I've been thinking already. I do believe they are test subjects and the little airplanes on the mobile...it only confirms that Oceanic is owned by Dharma. Why else would they have them? I'm not sure tho that the crew was in on it...I think they were clueless pawns (but I'm iffy about the pilot)

If Dharma owns Oceanic and the plancrash was orchestrated...then who's to say that they are even in the South Pacific Ocean? They could be anywhere! I mean, was anybody really paying attention when they were flying? The pilot could have steered them somewhere else.

Just my opinion...but Warren, I agree with 99.9% of what you said
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Enchirito
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think they are on an island in the Pacific...

hit up http://maps.google.com, type in 4.815 162.342. Zoom out. I think they are there.
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Fan4Lost
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried that too, but if you move the decimal point it takes you to other places too latitude and longitude. Just a theory
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Hobbes
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, what E said with that. That's what I currently think the numbers mean, just because that is just in the right spot.

Quote:

If Dharma owns Oceanic and the plancrash was orchestrated...then who's to say that they are even in the South Pacific Ocean? They could be anywhere! I mean, was anybody really paying attention when they were flying? The pilot could have steered them somewhere else.

And true, yet again! They could have steered the plane to just the right spot (and when you think about it, what are the chances of hitting an island, even when the island is trying to get the plane there? unless they flat-out carried the plane parts (and since Kate says she didn't black out, and saw the whole thing, that seems doubtful) then it seems to me that somehow somethign had to have been controlled to go there, which leads me to believe that the pilot was in on it, even if the stewardists weren't.

Quote:

Just my opinion...but Warren, I agree with 99.9% of what you said

Thanks! Appreciate it But I just mostly put in writing some of the obvious things I'm sure a lto of fans have kinda thought around.
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Rocksiren
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah the ol' philisophical argument- one life to save many. I dont care about the good intentions, you know what they say about the road to hell. Giving people that kind of "freedom" to do whatever they want in the name of science is dangerous.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I saw someone a while ago over in TVTOME saying "there arent any unexplored areas in the Pacific!"- UH YES THERE ARE. There are many islands just in the Fijian chain that have never been explored- at least not on historical record. They could be ANYWHERE. It could be a tiny dot on a map.

Well lets say youre right- its been 20 years, and apparently the only people they seem interested in saving is themselves. They dont want to "share" any "antidote". And if a weirdo millionare etc is looking for the secret of everlasting life, then no his intentions arent good and the sacrifice isnt worth it. Ponce de Leon he isnt. Well I dont think any facility such as this is worth it...end world hunger??? How???

And its not even a merciful sacrifice- its getting mangled, drowned, dropped, ripped apart and indirectly: Arzt, Boone, Shannon, Scott. Whats their excuse for hanging Charlie from a tree, breaking Scott/Nathan's necks?

I have no real theory on the "monster". And what about Danielle? She has been driven MAD- the proverbial Madame Tourvelle. You scare me sometimes Hobbes, when you think this would be okay.

As for the plane, we have no idea the crash. Obviously theres no real means of investigation, it could have been an RPG for all we know.

So they crashed on the island of Dr. Moreau? With the animals and such?
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Hobbes
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You scare me sometimes Hobbes, when you think this would be okay.

What?? No! I mean, they feel what they're doing is for the greater good, or for their own greater good. Either way. The point is I'm saying they believe they're doing the right thing.
What, you thought I meant that I thought they were the good guys?
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Rocksiren
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL I guess so Hobbes, sorry that I was wrong!
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Hobbes
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, on second look it did look awfully convincing. Plus, it's just a matter of time until I go evil after all, right?
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Rocksiren
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you DO have THAT avatar...
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Hobbes
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you rather have me have....
This one?

And besides, Harry made this one for me! Come on!
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Rocksiren
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was totally kidding...yeah that eye thing is pretty creepy too...
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