Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject:
Podrick approves of this episode:
Spoiler:
Bran's storyline is very limited in the books so it is understandable that they need to put stuff in there.
Spoiler:
I do not want Jon and Bran to meet though as it would be too much. Still holding out hope that Coldhands will eventually turn up and lead them to the three eyed crow.
Karl is a great antagonist so it should be interesting to see what happens. I also like Locke as a baddie so that storyline should be fun too.
The last scene was shocking because it hasn't been in the books but it was so creepy. I loved the whole thing. If I learn something new in the books or the show it doesn't matter to me.
I've kinda lost some of my love for Olenna now it seems clear she was willing to put Sansa in harms way for the sake of Margarey :/
Loved the Jaime scenes too! Jaime and Brienne have mad chemistry so it's sad they are parting ways. Brienne and Pod should be fun though _________________
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 16336 Location: Searching for Middle Earth
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject:
I don't even really know what to say. I really, really DON'T like this Bran situation. Where is Cold Hands? Why aren't they just doing Bran's storyline the way it is in the books? Not to be a stickler, but c'mon, this is a major deviation and I don't like it. Besides, Bran wouldn't put his friends at risk like that! I found the way they ended up captured very thin, plot-wise - I feel like if Meera told Bran they needed to go and he saw how scared she was, he'd listen. Bran seems more of a stubborn teenager on the show. I really hate that they've been captured. In the books Bran is so separate from everyone, this takes him too close to Jon. And if they use this as an excuse to have Meera get raped or assaulted in any way I will NOT be happy.
I like seeing Burn Gorman on this show because I love him dearly but I hate his character, he's terrible.
I love that we're getting started on Brienne and Pod though! I love their relationship! And the scenes with Jaime and Brienne were great as usual, I teared up when they said goodbye.
That moment with Grey Worm and Missandei at the beginning was really sweet, I wonder where they'll go with that!
I know that they can't keep everything the same as it is in the book, but they're taking some major liberties this season, which I find odd because they stuck relatively true for the first three seasons, while changing some details and adding some things. I know other shows like The Walking Dead take liberties with their source material but TWD is supposed to be a loose adaptation of the graphic novels....whereas GoT has always struck me as something that wanted to stay truer to the novels it's based on. I don't know why they've suddenly decided in their fourth season to change up a bunch of stuff. _________________ art by me&tammy
OMG, I can't believe you found a screen capture of that, Paul! I was giggling so hard at that scene. Pod is such a goof. I love him! I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him with Brienne. "Sir... er, m'lady."
Eryn, I agree with you. Changes are one thing but major deviations are something else entirely. Even if they just want to make Bran's story line more interesting, there are better ways they could have done it.
By the way, I forgot to mention the other thing that annoys me with the Craster's story line is how Jon and company are just "BRB, gonna run to Craster's real quick before Mance gets here" when it's sixty freaking miles away. In theory, if Mance is less than 120 miles from the wall at this point, they will probably be to Craster's by the time Jon gets there. Even if they're 200 miles from the wall at this point, by the time Jon and company get to Craster's and deal with the mutineers, Mance will be right on their tail as they head back. If you look at any map of Westeros that shows the north, Craster's is about 1/3 of the distance between the wall and the Frostfangs, making the wildlings roughly 180 miles away from the wall or less. Considering that they've been on the move this entire time, I find it hard to believe they're still anywhere near the Frostfangs, which puts them way too close to Craster's for this story line to be plausible. Meh.
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 16336 Location: Searching for Middle Earth
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:48 am Post subject:
I love Pod absolutely to death, if there's anything the show's done right by it's Podrick Payne.
Yeah!! I was weirded out by them deciding to go to Craster's! And I don't even understand why they've decided to do that...? It doesn't make sense to me. _________________ art by me&tammy
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject:
Logistics is something that bothers me sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. When Littlefinger was hopping here there and everywhere in season 2 it was pretty ridiculous.
Perhaps in the show Craster's is only 10 miles from the Wall?
One thing that bothered me about Karl was him drinking out of a skull. That was lame and hokey plus the fact that the wine would surely come out the mouth end? The actor is doing a great job though.
I think the resolution to the story will be
Spoiler:
Bran wargs into Karl and kills people and himself and they escape. Jon and crew arrive to find everyone slaughtered and presume Bran lost or dead. I hope Coldhands comes into the story because it would be lame if they just stumbled upon the tree where the children of the forest live.
I think we need to get used to these deviations because they are getting to a point where there will be no more story to draw from and they are going to have to make up scenes and intermingle them with stuff they can draw from. Maybe that's why they chose to add new scenes all the time so as to cut their teeth so to speak. _________________
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 16336 Location: Searching for Middle Earth
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject:
Not a bad episode up until they started threatening Meera with rape. I don't understand why they think rape is a legitimate plot point. And idc how "accurate" it might be for a girl to be raped or threatened with rape in Meera's situation, I don't like seeing it and it's not necessary to show. I was afraid they'd do something like this the moment those guys all got captured. And yes, at least she wasn't ACTUALLY raped, but she got saved in the nick of time. Tbh I'm not sure what the point of them getting captured in the first place was....
I LOVED the Sansa scenes!! Sophie Turner is absolutely killing it, she's gotten to be such a great actress. The scene between her and Lysa was so great.
I also loved the scene between Cersei and Oberyn. Oberyn really is such a good person, I think. "We don't hurt little girls in Dorne." You know HE believes that's true. He'd never hurt a child for the crimes of their parents (unlike Cersei tbqh!). But Cersei's love for her children always gets me.
Loving Brienne and Pod! Always loved them in the book, the show is doing a good job. _________________ art by me&tammy
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Not a bad episode up until they started threatening Meera with rape. I don't understand why they think rape is a legitimate plot point. And idc how "accurate" it might be for a girl to be raped or threatened with rape in Meera's situation, I don't like seeing it and it's not necessary to show. I was afraid they'd do something like this the moment those guys all got captured. And yes, at least she wasn't ACTUALLY raped, but she got saved in the nick of time. Tbh I'm not sure what the point of them getting captured in the first place was....
I was actually waiting for Karl to cosy up to Hodor j/k There is plenty of rape in the books so it's something you have to come to expect on GOT. Besides like you said they never went through with it so to complain about it is a bit too much.
I actually thought the new scenes were the best part of the episode. I enjoy being unsullied and not knowing what is going to happen for once. The action sequences were great. Thankfully they didn't have Bran and Jon meet.
Quote:
I LOVED the Sansa scenes!! Sophie Turner is absolutely killing it, she's gotten to be such a great actress. The scene between her and Lysa was so great.
It was so cool to go back to the Eyrie and we got the Jon Arryn reveal. That was great. I feel so bad for Sansa though. She just keeps getting put in different but equally horrible situations.
Quote:
Loving Brienne and Pod! Always loved them in the book, the show is doing a good job.
Aw Pod he is so adorable like in the books. Love them together already. Love when she got a bit of respect for him when he said he killed Mandon Moore.
Quote:
I also loved the scene between Cersei and Oberyn. Oberyn really is such a good person, I think. "We don't hurt little girls in Dorne." You know HE believes that's true. He'd never hurt a child for the crimes of their parents (unlike Cersei tbqh!). But Cersei's love for her children always gets me.
Oberyn is the best! The actor is doing a fantastic job. I loved that line too. It does seem like the best place to live would be Dorne in Westeros.
Do you remeber if Arya says Beric and Thoros of Myr's name in the books on her list? I can't remember. It seems a bit harsh when all they did was let Melisandre take Gendry.
I was thinking the other day what if GRRM is trolling us and we do actually get a happy ending. That would be great. It's not something you would expect in the series with how things have gone but it would buck the trend of how the story has gone so far.
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 16336 Location: Searching for Middle Earth
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:48 pm Post subject:
Polarbear wrote:
I was actually waiting for Karl to cosy up to Hodor j/k There is plenty of rape in the books so it's something you have to come to expect on GOT. Besides like you said they never went through with it so to complain about it is a bit too much.
Mmm.....no. There is more rape on the show than there is in the books and it's quite disturbing that D&D looked at the ASOIAF books and were like "hm yes the best thing to do is to add MORE RAPE!!" It is NOT too much to complain about it. And as long as they keep adding rape/attempted rape scenes to this show I'll keep on complaining about it.
I don't think I should have to watch brave, strong Meera Reed in that position. Meera is never a victim in the books. Meera is literally the strongest person in that group (Hodor excepted) so I don't understand why the show had to do this. There were also disturbing sexual comments made about Arya in this season's premiere (Arya who is a LITERAL CHILD).
So no. I'm not going to stop complaining about it and it's not too much to complain about. I don't want to watch this happen to the girls I love on this show, especially when it doesn't happen in the books. The show appears to not be acknowledging that what Jaime did to Cersei was rape - whatever. I expected that. But that scene with Karl and Meera was utterly unnecessary. It would have been just as easy to have him just threaten Hodor or Jojen's life, that would have gotten Bran just as upset. Even simply putting a knife to Meera's throat would have sufficed. But no, we got this whole scene of him gearing up to rape her and there were really unfortunate implications about what he was going to do with that knife. I'm really not happy about it. It's possible to make a good, edgy show that doesn't have a rape or attempted rape scene in every episode. (The Walking Dead is a fine example.)
And yes, there is rape in the books. But it's never in graphic detail and any sex scene that IS in detail is consensual. And all the rapes that happen in the books are acknowledged as such, and generally people are pretty horrified by them. On the show it's just like "welp, another day, another rape, what are you gonna do." But at least Karl is dead now.
No, Arya doesn't say Beric Dondarrian's name in the books, or Thoros of Myr! I was surprised by that too, but I guess meeting Melisandre took her on a slightly different route. I really liked that storyline last season, though, I think meeting Melisandre makes sense for Arya and where her story goes.
GRRM has said that the ending will be "bittersweet," which is probably about all we can expect from this series!
I can't believe we're halfway through the season already!! Ahh....some things coming up I'm both excited for and at the same time not looking forward to!
OMG, are we seriously halfway through the season already? It feels like it just started!
Eryn, I agree with everything you said about the Meera near-rape scene. I think what makes it different in the books is we mostly just hear about rapes that happened, they rarely happen during the story, and when they do they often seem to have a higher purpose than just shock value or making the bad guys look worse. Like Dany witnessing the rape of Mirri Maz Duur, which is formative for her because she sees a crime against humanity and uses her position as "queen" to put a stop to it. There are a few others (Lollys, Palla, Pia, and
Spoiler:
Sansa's near-rape by Marillion)
that act as catalysts, and while there surely could have been other, non-rape catalysts, at least they had a point. In the show, it just seems to be for shock value or to make the bad guys look even worse. And worse, at least twice now they've used near-rape scenes that weren't in the books with characters who are strong and not portrayed as victims. I find that to be a bit squicky, like a subconscious slight against strong women--"we'll show them a thing or two!" Ick.
But anyway...
I really enjoyed this episode and I was soooo thrilled that the Craster's thing didn't go all pear-shaped like I thought it would. I realized that the point of the near-reunion with Jon and Bran was to make up for it not happening at the Queenscrown. I kind of liked the way it played out with Bran having to choose between reuniting with his brother or finding the three-eyed raven.
Loved, loved, loved the Brienne and Pod scenes. At first I didn't like how bumbling they were making him out to be, but I liked the way it played out. I liked the scene with Cersei and Margaery--although, was Cersei as involved in the Tommen/Margaery match in the books? I didn't remember that she was and had thought it had been one of the first signs of
Spoiler:
her losing control of things.
I loved the scene with her and Oberyn, too. I agree--if you had to live in Westeros, Dorne would be the place.
Really loved the stuff in the Vale. So cool that they were able to get the same little guy (pretty sure?) for Sweet Robin. I absolutely LOVE that they are making such a point of showing Petyr teaching Sansa how to play the game. That
Spoiler:
only reinforces my hope that she will be a big player before the end.
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject:
HobbitRockGod wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I was actually waiting for Karl to cosy up to Hodor j/k There is plenty of rape in the books so it's something you have to come to expect on GOT. Besides like you said they never went through with it so to complain about it is a bit too much.
Mmm.....no. There is more rape on the show than there is in the books and it's quite disturbing that D&D looked at the ASOIAF books and were like "hm yes the best thing to do is to add MORE RAPE!!" It is NOT too much to complain about it. And as long as they keep adding rape/attempted rape scenes to this show I'll keep on complaining about it.
I don't think I should have to watch brave, strong Meera Reed in that position. Meera is never a victim in the books. Meera is literally the strongest person in that group (Hodor excepted) so I don't understand why the show had to do this. There were also disturbing sexual comments made about Arya in this season's premiere (Arya who is a LITERAL CHILD).
So no. I'm not going to stop complaining about it and it's not too much to complain about. I don't want to watch this happen to the girls I love on this show, especially when it doesn't happen in the books. The show appears to not be acknowledging that what Jaime did to Cersei was rape - whatever. I expected that. But that scene with Karl and Meera was utterly unnecessary. It would have been just as easy to have him just threaten Hodor or Jojen's life, that would have gotten Bran just as upset. Even simply putting a knife to Meera's throat would have sufficed. But no, we got this whole scene of him gearing up to rape her and there were really unfortunate implications about what he was going to do with that knife. I'm really not happy about it. It's possible to make a good, edgy show that doesn't have a rape or attempted rape scene in every episode. (The Walking Dead is a fine example.)
And yes, there is rape in the books. But it's never in graphic detail and any sex scene that IS in detail is consensual. And all the rapes that happen in the books are acknowledged as such, and generally people are pretty horrified by them. On the show it's just like "welp, another day, another rape, what are you gonna do." But at least Karl is dead now.
There is quite a few 'rape' scenes at the moment but overall there hasn't been a slew of rape over the series. Rape is prevalent in the books. It might not be detailed every time but it's talked about a lot. Tyrion himself almost raped Sansa in the books but it's not in the show.
The Lollys rape I found extremely disturbing in the books so glad they didn't include that.
On TWD Carl was almost raped last season so it does happen in other shows. It makes sense in an apocalyptic world too.
It's worth noting that one of Craster's wives was the end for Karl which was awesome and they made a point of them showing how they hated Craster and the Nights Watch for abusing them.
You have a right to complain and think how you wish. I didn't mean to insinuate that you couldn't but I think people do seem to be overreacting at the moment because of the Jaime/Cersei scene which was just very badly handled and not meant to be a rape. _________________
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 16336 Location: Searching for Middle Earth
Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject:
Paul, under a spoiler tag just so I don't jam up the thread with my comments on the issue:
Spoiler:
Yeah, I know Carl was almost raped on TWD. However, that was treated as the horrible action it was and was also the first time in four seasons that rape was even insinuated at all. Intriguing. No women on TWD have been attacked for the sole reason that they're women. (Merle made some gross suggestive comments but nobody was okay with him doing that.)
I am displeased with the way the show handles rape and sexual assault. On the show it is normalized and treated, as you yourself said, as something we should just expect. I do not like the fact that they are adding in sexual assault to characters like Meera who were never assaulted in the books. Meera was attacked on the show because she is a woman and that, excuse my language, is fucked up.
Maybe rape does "make sense in an apocalyptic world" or in the world Game of Thrones takes place in. However, it also happens every day in the real world and is hardly taken as seriously as it should be (as demonstrated by the fact that the writers, actors, and directors on this show who think the Jaime/Cersei scene wasn't rape). This isn't something that is only an issue on the show. This is a REAL WORLD ISSUE that many people have been through and struggle with, and the show is not doing any favors in that regard. I am disappointed that Game of Thrones is contributing to rape culture in this way by treating rape as something that just HAPPENS and can't be helped.
Yes, obviously it's cool that one of Craster's wives ended up killing Karl, but it's hardly progressive to have a storyline that involves a group of women being beaten and abused.
I hate to be a killjoy all the time on this thread but I am not here for the normalization of rape and assault and this season of GoT has really been awful about it.
I agree completely with your comments, Julia, about how it's almost like a slight against strong women. Gross.
I don't think Cersei was as involved in the books! I was surprised by that too! And by the fact that they seem to be going through with the Cersei/Loras wedding....can Loras just join the Kingsguard already?! I don't want Cersei anywhere near him!
Sansa is SO getting to be a major player in the game! She gave Lysa the same lines she always told everyone in King's Landing "I'm a stupid little girl with stupid dreams" - she knows what she has to do to survive and that alone will keep her alive long enough to really be a contender by the end! _________________ art by me&tammy
Oh! I just noticed at the Bloody Gate, Petyr introduced "Alayne" as his niece.
Spoiler:
that is so dumb. She was his bastard daughter in the books. Petyr doesn't have any siblings, so how in the heck could he have a niece? And considering that everyone knows Sansa is Lysa's niece, and would be Petyr's niece by marriage, why would he introduce her as something so obvious as his niece? Lame.
Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 16336 Location: Searching for Middle Earth
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject:
Oooh, that's a good point, Julia! I didn't think much of it when he said that other than "huh I wonder why they changed that" but yeah, that's very true! _________________ art by me&tammy
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject:
The last episode had over 7 million viewers! Amazing. Hopefully this is the dawn of great fantasy on television.
Spoiler:
I just read the parts again with Ygritte dying in Jon's arms and of course the Mountain and the Red Viper fighting. The dialogue is so amazing. I hope they keep that in there. Can't wait ><
On another note..
Spoiler:
I heard on a podcast people discussing about Cersei's lack of sexuality on the show. It bothers me somewhat that she is portrayed so much of an ice queen. In the books she is a seductress but there is nothing like that on the show. I wonder if her affair with the Kettleblacks will be cut too.
edit: One other thing that's bothered me. It's a minor quibble but.. WHY THE HELL DOESN'T THE INTRO EVER CHANGE? Usually when a new location pops up the credits change. We have no Eyrie but we still have Winterfell. I miss the changeable credits _________________
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Not to be a stickler, but c'mon, this is a major deviation and I don't like it. Besides, Bran wouldn't put his friends at risk like that! I found the way they ended up captured very thin, plot-wise - I feel like if Meera told Bran they needed to go and he saw how scared she was, he'd listen. Bran seems more of a stubborn teenager on the show. 
The actor is doing a great job though.
