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thefilmchick
Expert Vidder
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Albany, NY
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: If I could get a beta for something too... |
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... that'd be great. Or betas, as the case may be. People who are more talented than me at WMM, ideally. I'm trying a bit of a different tactic with my newest video (hopefully it's a bit more entertaining as a video, I guess, than my previous efforts) and am curious if it works and hope that it does. Thanks!
ETA: Thoughts? 'Lord Byron's Luggage,' by Warren Zevon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8wpZYOb19o |
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thefilmchick
Expert Vidder
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Made a few quick fixes, particularly the 'persona non grata' line. Up on zshare for a while anyway:
http://www.zshare.net/video/byron_0005-wmv-hna.html
In all seriousness, if anyone DOES have thoughts, please post them. I am curious what people think and would like to edit it to make it watchable; given that my previous videos have apparently been underwhelming, I'd like to know where I'm screwing up or something.  |
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LadySnow
Intermediate Vidder
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 57
Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I really liked the old fasioned movie effect montages .... and you fit the lyrics quite well also I thought the bagpipey sound was awsome for Desmond 
Though at the end didn't make much sence... was that supposed to be his life flashing before his eyes??....
oh and I think you missed putting the effect on like 5 sec of libby at the end b/c it was randomly in colour for a moment lol
I hope I was sort of helpful... not that I really know what I'm doing that much.. but I figured I'd give my 2 cents. |
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thefilmchick
Expert Vidder
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Yeah the random in-color was the effect... not sure why it flashed to color but it's not a setting. I could change that clip to the other - more flickery - old-film style and see if that wipes out the color.
As far as the end, it was 'clips I wanted to fit in but couldn't fit the lyrics, and I like the Ken Burns style raft ending.' Maybe a bit more cohesiveness there though. |
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Hobbes
Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11211
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:30 am Post subject: |
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Really solid, very well-done vid, and in my opinion a shoe-in for a Silver CP. As for Gold, I bet this could get pretty close to one with a little bit more cleaning up, particularly the "jumpy" clips at beats where they don't really need them (though I adored some of those drum beat clips!  Especially your use of the weird hallucination clips!  ) However, it would be a maybe  because no matter how well done this is (and I'd say it's pretty well-done as it is actually ) the idea of the video itself just doesn't really have anything all that original to it. Don't get me wrong, I love Desmond, and I think you did an excellent job fitting his story to the song! But the song is really long and there's not all that much of a climax you can realyl build to where you just say "awesome vid!". Even when done to the best fo the song's limits, it still doesn't really give a vidder room to tell a story and it's a lot of empty space to fill (3 minutes or more means a tough job keepign the vid interesting.)
There is a chance though, sicne it's well-done, and we're fairly open to the first few vids that showcase a new character well, like Desmond, but as I said, there's just nothing absolutely-fantabulously-super about the vid, and there's nothign much you can do about that  It's a problem we all get, and results in a hell of a lot of vidder's block, especially among those who consistently churn out Gold CP vids. They sit there and think up ideas after ideas, only finally making a vid when they have the perfect one
But that vid was really cool great style of music to fit to Desmond, and I loved some of the parallels, like the needle in haystack thing, and those drum rolls Great job! Don't let past vids get you down, because this was great, and I would be surprised if it didn't get a Silver CP. Unfortunately, before a few weeks ago, we never had a Silver CP. 
The sheer fact that you're open to suggestions on your vids is a sign you'll be awesome if you keep trying, so keep at it!
Oh, and could you post betas in the Self-Help forum from now on? Sorry it's so confusing, but the Vidding-Help is more about Technical help (yeah, maybe we shoudl have named it "Technical Help"  but what are you gonna do? |
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thefilmchick
Expert Vidder
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Oi. Thanks for the review, Hobbes. I'll clean it up some - can you tell me parts that you thought were jumpy that shouldn't have been, if you remember or can see them again? Sorry about that; I didn't notice them but then again was running out of caffeine (insert obvious joke re. taking after the video here) when I made it, so perhaps missed something.
Regarding the lack of a story, I'll admit I'm confused there. All of the verses seem pretty story-driven to me, even if I deliberately took the clips out of order to fit the verses. Do you think that it's maybe because the song lyrics and video are so close (I mean, god, a guy getting pronounced persona non grata, going out to sea, and then getting older in isolation (but still looking for love) in Zevon's song is pretty much Desmond in a nutshell, particularly with bagpipes), that that's why it came off as such? I honestly thought about that - was it too close - but decided that I liked the song anyway, so what the hell.
As far as a climax, the intercutting btw Desmond and Penny is too 'soft,' for lack of a better word, for that, maybe. Not sure what I could put in there instead though. And as far as length, I tried cutting it with WMM. It didn't work at all nicely, alas. It's only 4 and a half minutes, though, so - where do you start to drift off?
Thanks for answering and I'm sorry this is in the wrong forum. I saw a similar thread below so decided this went here. Feel free to move the thread to the Self-Help forum if you would like, though.
If anyone else has any other thoughts, knock yourself out.
(PS "Still judging" on all of my other vids, heh. So who knows; some of them could make it in, too. I'm particularly 'rooting for' Prison Grove and There's a Story in Your Voice, as I thought they were the best. And, of course, Kid Fears for the contst. Heh.)
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I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect.
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Hobbes
Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11211
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'll clean it up some - can you tell me parts that you thought were jumpy that shouldn't have been, if you remember or can see them again? |
It may just be your certain style of vidding, but what I define "jumpy" as is any clip change that doesn't really correspond to the beat or has a point, a good example being one that uses the same scene from the same camera angle, yet part of it is cut out of ther middle so the person's face "jumps" around a bit. Another is just when clips change quickly, but there's not much of a beat or anythign to dictate it, so it just looks a bit messy. It wasn't too bad though, just a bit here and there, nothing too much to worry about.
Story/ climax/ length : ain't that the truth?... I know what you meant by it just fitting right, and also by what you mean by the song just not working nicely cut-down. They all kinda tie in together. Yes, you had a story to it that fit the lyrics (though they were a bit tough to grasp with that song, and without many particular scenes to "pull" you into it) but like you said, the story and the lyrics already matched pretty closely, there just wasn't any real revelation to it to make you go "oh!" and appreciate that fact. Also, sicne the lyrics are sorta hard to hear and understand for someone who just sees it the first time, that also makes it a little riskier. Top it off with a longish song and it's just really hard to get it to that level of "holy cow that's awesome!" which is what we usually look for for Gold CPs
You did the best job you could with what you had there (and I can't blame you for not wanting to cut down the song either), and it was really good! Jsut wasn't "wow". The sad truth we all have to face. It's at this point where skill isn't the only thign that matters, and song choice and story become a huge thign too. You have to have something new to bring to the table, AND pull it off as a video with really well-done editing, AND wrap it up in a nice neat little package that captivates the viewers. Every person up there on the Hall of Fame http://www.lostvideo.net/council_picks.php has to deal with that same stress, but their vids show their efforts. Being a good vidder isn't just about actual skill, it's the idea itself too. You have the skill, and you werew close to having the idea on this one, and I think with a little more practice and a few good ideas, you could rock these vids!
But don't knock yourself out over our approval either. As I said, we look for originality and whatever else, but if all you want to do is make a well-done vid to your favourite song, then there's absolutely nothign wrong with that, and that's what the Silver CP is for.
I hope I didn't come across as harsh or anything. Did this help you at all? |
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thefilmchick
Expert Vidder
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Oh no, you didn't come across as too harsh. I'd much rather get a good critique than 'omgz!', so thanks for that.
I think regarding the lyrics, that's part of the hazards of choosing not-well-known songs, too. Any advice for that, because the day I start thinking, Oh, Mariah Carey would make a good Lost video (no offense to folks who have used her) is the day that I delete WMM from my machine, heh. And since I'm not into 'shipping or the like, I can't exactly rely on that for my story, either. What tricks do people use, absent familiar songs or preferential 'ships, out of curiosity?
At the risk of coming off badly, what I think I do have that's 'new': offbeat song choices, willingness to experiment with different stuff, a general familiarity with the songs that I choose to put to videos - seem like they work against me with viewers, though, because my viewers mightn't know those songs, so I'm not sure what the middle ground is there. How do you strike that balance, too?
I've only been doing this stuff for about a month and a half, so I'm still learning. The film background helps to some extent, I'm sure (as an ex-film student IRL), but I could always stand to learn more, so thanks again. I will clean up some of the slightly shaky points and leave it at that - like I said, I ca't cut the song and, as Desmond ain't been in a lot of episodes, can't really change the clips to anything entirely different, alas.
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I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect.
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Hobbes
Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11211
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: |
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I think regarding the lyrics, that's part of the hazards of choosing not-well-known songs, too. |
I can agree with you on that. Though there are equal risks of choosing a well-known song too, since they are A) used frequently, meaning lots of competition B) known so well people will watch, see where you're going to go with the lyrics before it's even gotten past a minute, and basically just tune out for the rest because there's nothing to surprise them there
My theory is that a song needs three things: 1. A solid beat you can use to change scenes 2. A climax 3. A story that doesn't repeat itself over and over (or a cut piece of that story) 3.Something that inspires you to make that video, because there's something new in it that you never thought of before.
| Quote: | | the day I start thinking, Oh, Mariah Carey would make a good Lost video (no offense to folks who have used her) is the day that I delete WMM from my machine, heh |
Let God have mercy on us all the day I ask someone to use a shipper song for the purpose of making their vids better. No, shippers have the same problems as everyone else: They can make their lovey vids as good as they want, but it doesn't change the fact that we get about 20 every week for every one of them, and they're almost all completely alike, barring a song change and some clip differences (though a Skate vid without its kiss and a Jate without its kiss are rarities indeed. It's more about how they use them than if they use them). This means that the total originality between them is about as little as can be, and if they don't have something else special to them that takes them out from the simple formula of following a song's lyrics, then they end up with Silvers (for those that are still done really well), or nothing at all.
The biggest problem about originality is that it gets used up I'd say that a few months ago vids could bring a new idea to the table a LOT easier than a vid nowadays, but that's just the way things go. It's not realyl that we're getting harsher either, it's just that the competition is so great that vids have to stand out if they want to... stand out.
| Quote: | | What tricks do people use, absent familiar songs or preferential 'ships, out of curiosity? |
Well, I don't really know how most people choose their songs, but I imagine many just choose a song and do whatever they see in it. I myself play my cards a lot slower, waiting for the right song that just inspires me to make it into a vid. When I choose, it's not just some song that I like (in fact, a few songs I've done haven't even really been my favourite, I just heard them on the radio or wherever and said "now that would make an awesome video.") I just choose a song that I like, that has a good beat, that has a story that I feel fits to Lost, and has something new I can portray that really isn't touched on too much, and finally has room for something "original" in it. "Original" can be anything, btu for my videos it's animation. I put in something that lets me show a different aspect of Lost than others. It's like cheating! But it does help me portray what I'm trying to say with the video, and it's what makes the video better for it. People don't care abotu flashy effects much, but when they're flashy and they actually mean something, that's when it's important. Or so I feel, at least...
| Quote: | | At the risk of coming off badly, what I think I do have that's 'new': offbeat song choices, willingness to experiment with different stuff, a general familiarity with the songs that I choose to put to videos |
I agree, you've got an interest in a relatively unexplored area of music, which means you have first dibs on whatever songs you can find that really scream a unique story you want to tell Of course right now they work against you with viewers, since those particular viewers are probably much more concerned with finding a vid to their favourite song than a well-thought-out, amazing vid, but there are still a few of us who do look for that, and I can pretty-much assure you that when we do find it, we commend it.
You're definitely right though, there is a balance between the well-known songs and the original ones, and it's a tough tread. Since my personal tastes in music are very general, I just try to find the most well-known song I can that hasn't already used my edge I want to use, and just go with it. Even if it doesn't really matter critic-wise, who would probably liek the vid even if the song was completely unknown and unliked by them, it sure is nice to have a song that you can guarentee some comments from viewers on  just for the sole fact that they liked the song.
| Quote: |
I've only been doing this stuff for about a month and a half, so I'm still learning. |
Well kudos to you! Not bad for someone still beginning. I know my first vids aren't what I would consider Gold CPs, that's for sure  but then again back then was a completely different time, and they happened to be good for that time... lol. Hopefully my vids have gotten better since then, lol. I wouldn't know really...
My best advice would be to recommend you check out some of the vids that have won CPs, particularly those by Polarbear, Aislynn, Lostzilla and oh, lets say.... Holly, to see what I mean by originality. I have a feelign most people see these vidders and only see the fancy effects of their vids and assume they're great, but the reason they're great vidders, at least in my opinion, is deeper than that, it's about the stories they try to portray, and the way they go on the unbeaten path to tell them.
Though maybe I'm just living in an ideal world and it really all is based upon which vids look better... it sure seems that they end up falling into place that way... hmmm.
Well, I hope my incoherent ramblings helped in some way lol. It's about 12:30 here so hopefully ecplains theit incoherentness. |
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