Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: 5x12 - Dead is Dead
Centricity:
Spoiler:
Unknown
Synopsis:
Spoiler:
BEN ATTEMPTS TO SUMMON THE SMOKE MONSTER IN ORDER TO BE JUDGED FOR SINS OF THE PAST
To atone for sins of the past, Ben must attempt to summon the smoke monster in order to be judged.
Guest List:
Spoiler:
Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert
Tania Raymonde as Alex
Sonya Walger as Penelope “Penny” Widmore
Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus
Sterling Beaumon as young Ben
Zuleikha Robinson as Llana
Said Taghmaoui as Caesar
Melissa Farman as young Danielle Rousseau
Brad William Henke as Bram
Matt Hoffman as Jed
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 8446 Location: On the moon! With Steve...
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:24 am Post subject:
OMFG, I think this was hands down one of the best episodes of the season!!
Spoiler:
Charles/Ben conflict!!
Alex came back!!
Young Ben/Young Alex!!
Des/Pen/Charlie!!!
BOCKE!!!
And best of all....
BEN IS GOOD FOLKS!! I don't know - there was something fairly definitive about that episode, and I think that Smokey would not have let Ben live if his intentions were not fully in the best interest of the island.
I think he has animosity towards Locke, but I think Smokey knocked some sense into him. Notice that was the only thing he mentioned to him - Don't kill Locke. That was it. Not "you've sinned, you need to be punished" not "you're an awful person" etc. etc. Just "don't kill Locke".
So basically what I took from this episode is that yes - Ben has done bad things and he is still a lying little snake, but in his heart - he has the island in his heart and Smokey knows this, which is why he let Ben live. I think his animosity towards Locke is just plain jealousy, but hopefully Smokey knocked some sense into him. I could be wrong about this, but we'll see....
But still!! He saved Alex!! How can he not be good? Widmore wanted to kill an INFANT!!! Not to mention - he didn't kill Penny because of Charlie! He couldn't bring himself to kill a mother!!
I don't know about you guys, but that right there kind of redeems him in my eyes. But then again, I'm biased in the first place.
Next week looks interesting too, but man....I don't know if anything is gonna live up to that now. Maybe the finale...
But omg, I forgot one of the best parts!!
Spoiler:
BEN TOTALLY KILLED CAESAR!!! God, I was soo happy about that. But at the same time it was kind of like "they made a big deal about this guy coming onto the cast only to KILL HIM?"
But then again, him and Ilana seem kind of like this year's Nikki & Paulo
Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 55699 Location: the nest
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:18 am Post subject:
pretty awesome ep!! im not a ben fan but i really liked this one; I liked seeing how he was with baby Alex and we saw that he wasn't cold; Widmore was. He was scary back then!! and i got so excited when i saw Tanya's name in the opening credits! and awesome seeing Alan Dale back i cried when Benny had those memory flashes but it was awesome seeing Alex kick his ass a little
and did everyone see Risk was still on the table when Ben came looking through his house? so does that mean no ones been back there since Sawyer and Hurley were playing the game in Shape of things to come?
i was sooo freaked out when ben arrived at the marina and saw Penny!!! and then Des!!!!!!! omg; i had a massive freakout when ben shot him but him beating ben was killer; and that shot of ben in the water was soooo eerie! plus yay, we got to see lil Charlie again!
and who knew summoning the smoke monster was as simple as draining a puddle? _________________
Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 18232 Location: Somewhere...
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:48 am Post subject:
OK I freakkin adored this episode, definatly in my top 3 of the season!
The flashbacks were brilliant, helped give an insight to how Ben got Alex and what Widmore had done to get himself kicked off the island! Loved both Alans and Michael's wigs
That's what I thought Kat, because that's what they were playing like you said. I think you're right no one has been there.
The Marina bit, I was like OMFG! When he shot desmond I was like and then because I knew Penny didn't die I was like don't let it be the child because Ben was like 'tell Desmond Hume I'm sorry' So glad though that Desmond got to beating his ass!
Ok I have this lil theory going on, mainly because it's similar to Buffy but the big bad could take the form of dead people and I dunno I'm thinking maybe Alex was Jacob? Or something like there's something which can do that, because there's Christain as well?
Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 55699 Location: the nest
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject:
oh, i like your theory charlee and there's def. more to alex because that whole Dead is Dead theme ran throughout this ep. so it wasn't Alex, it might have been Jacob like you said! and maybe that's whose talking through all our losties, like Charlie and Ana from earlier eps? _________________
Amazing episode! Great acting by Michael Emerson. (Like always)
LOVED the whole smoke monster scene at the end. I honestly thought it was going to kill Ben at first.
The wall above where smokey came out from was interesting.
I don't think that Cesar (or however you spell it) is dead. I think he will still play a part in the story.
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 2591 Location: The Land of Eternal Heat
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:
Okay,
I'm sorry people. I can simply not bring myself to believe that Ben is a good guy. I don't think he's a monster- but a good guy? No.
He's lying about why he killed Locke, and he was planning on doing it AGAIN. He let Alex get killed, he shot an unarmed man... He's killed so many people! I still like his character and stuff, but he is not cool dude. Him killing Locke was the big thing that made me dislike him hardcore.
I was so scared though when he said, "Tell Des i'm sorry" I was like NOOOOOO! NOT PENNY! Loved how Des got up even though he had a bullet in him and beat the crap out of him! I was like yesss!!!!
The smoke monster creeps me the freak out! I hate how it takes the form of people... that is the monster, right? Like when he took the form of Yemi and then went all psycho and killed Eko... It's scary because the person acts normal at first, but then freaks out. When Alex did that it was creepy.
QUESTION: Is Christain Jacob, or an agent of Jacob? I'm still unclear with that. And he came back to life when they crashed, is that the deal? And then he just decided to hide in the jungle and help the island? Or was he already there before too? Hmmm... I have no clue. Confusing!
THIS IS WHY I HATE SPLIT GROUPS. I really wanted some of the other losties to be in this episode, but instead we were stuck with everyone else
ALSO- Does anyone else think that the second plane crash was a RETARDED idea? What is the point of those stupid people, other than to get shot by Ben? And what is Frank's role in all this? How are they going to get off the island!?!?
I hate that plot line. _________________ <3 Jourdan
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 2591 Location: The Land of Eternal Heat
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject:
Charmed_Charlee wrote:
Ok I have this lil theory going on, mainly because it's similar to Buffy but the big bad could take the form of dead people and I dunno I'm thinking maybe Alex was Jacob? Or something like there's something which can do that, because there's Christain as well?
I like that! Just like buffy! That would make sense. For some reason I thought it might be the smoke monster or something... just because Yemi got all crazy with Eko and then the smoke monster came and got him, right?
I was under the impression that Christian is Christian, and that he came back to life when they crashed, just like Locke did. _________________ <3 Jourdan
Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 30478 Location: With Anna Torv... somewhere ;)
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject:
Quote:
THIS IS WHY I HATE SPLIT GROUPS. I really wanted some of the other losties to be in this episode, but instead we were stuck with everyone else
ALSO- Does anyone else think that the second plane crash was a RETARDED idea? What is the point of those stupid people, other than to get shot by Ben? And what is Frank's role in all this? How are they going to get off the island!?!?
I hate that plot line.
I completely agree with everything you said there Jourdan. I liked this episode...but I was really missing my Kate, Jack, Sawyer and Juliet....its not the same without them. I hope everyone gets reunited soon!! and that 2nd plane crash group annoys me too...and have you noticed that it always seems kind of dark and overcast when they show them. Its never really bright and sunny like your used to seeing.
Oh and I thought about something the other day. Do you think Ben having Kate's blood in him will have any weird kind of significance down the line? I mean this is Lost...
WTF was with the pulling a drain to call the smoke monster? I thought that was kind of lame. _________________
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 8446 Location: On the moon! With Steve...
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject:
Jourdan - I get what you're saying about Ben, but I think the easiest way to say it is that he's the lesser of two evils.
I don't think that Ben is a completely good, saintly character (ala Jack or Locke). He's proven that time and time again. He's murdered people and done terrible things to people - partly to push forward his own agenda and partly because when he gets upset, he acts more out of emotion than anything. That aspect of him is very childish, but I think it just stems from his messed up childhood. He's a man who can't deal with his emotions - he can't keep them in check when he's pissed off or wronged by someone.
But does Ben have good intentions? Yes. Is he completely heartless? No. I think the fact that Ben is actually a fairly emotional guy has pretty much been proven a few times during the series. This episode just further cemented it. Why else would he have saved Alex and not killed Rousseau? Even though the island supposedly wanted both of them dead, why didn't he do it? And he couldn't bring himself to kill Penny, not after finding out she has a kid.
I think the best way to describe Ben without resorting to a good vs. evil thing is that Ben is just morally ambiguous. He can shoot a man in cold blood, but has a soft spot when it comes to kids. And yes, he let Alex get killed, but I think A) he truly believed he could talk his way out of it and B) he obviously regretted it and felt a tremendous amount of guilt over it. He knew what he did was wrong and that's why he came back to the island - to repent for it. He loved Alex, there's no question or doubt in my mind about it - he absolutely loved her.
Not to mention - it's obviously he feels very guilty about Penny too. Now if she didn't have a kid, would he have still killed her? I think so. Would he feel bad about it? Probably not. But I think he's realized that vengeance isn't the right way to deal with his loss of Alex. And I think that's why he truly feels bad about trying to kill Penny...
Also - I re-watched the scene again, and I think Des got shot. I think he was saved by his bulletproof groceries _________________
genuninely teared up when ben saw all those memories of Alex. But "Angry 'attack daddy' Monster /Alex" wasn't a very good touch, that ghostly reunion could have been a bit more sentimental even if Ben was a knob of a father.
Ben as an emo got me lolling. There wasn't much to say about this eppy really other than it was good to see Sun and Locke after such awhile, makes me think the story might get going..and HOPEFULLY see a Jun reunion!!!!!
Don't know what the hell Illeana was going on about and why poor Lapidus copped it?
And forgive me but they really need to start calling him Frank every time they say Captain Lapidus sounds like
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Looks good!
i cried when Benny had those memory flashes 
I hope everyone gets reunited soon!! and that 2nd plane crash group annoys me too...and have you noticed that it always seems kind of dark and overcast when they show them. Its never really bright and sunny like your used to seeing.
