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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| SuperKC wrote: | | Tom was absolutely gay. And he was introduced in S1 finale lol. |
Oops. My bad. But he didn't really get introduced as a character as such until S3. Is he saying 'I don't dig chicks'? Probably. I'd wager you're about 99% right, honestly - but it wasn't definite and it was a throwaway comment. Not that I think they should have Carson from 'Queer Eye' come on and give everyone design tips, but to me that doesn't count as a gay character, and he was a second-stringer anyway.
As the only major character to be introduced in S2 besides the Tailies, I could have seen Ben as being gay, but they certainly haven't confirmed that, and have gone the other way with him still pining over Annie thirty years later and having a kid (? Alex seems unsure, anyway) with Danielle.
| Quote: | | I think the lost writers are just not following through though, OBVIOUSLY Tom is not who they meant lol |
I think you're right, that they're not following through.
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Distress Signal
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 896
Location: NOWHERE! BWAHAHAHAHAHA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| thefilmchick wrote: |
As the only major character to be introduced in S2 besides the Tailies, I could have seen Ben as being gay, but they certainly haven't confirmed that, and have gone the other way with him still pining over Annie thirty years later and having a kid (? Alex seems unsure, anyway) with Danielle. |
Oh dear, not this again. *facepalm*
Danielle was pregnant with Alex ON the ship before she crashed. She gave birth weeks after crashing on the island and they stole it from her, and Ben claimed Alex as his own. He's her adoptive parent, in a sense. There is not the slightest bit of evidence of Danielle getting close to the others, let alone becoming attracted to Ben. I'm sorry, but this always drives me crazy.
Um, now that I got that out of the way.......
I don't know what's going on with the writers. They keep making false promises of a gay character showing up. Tom seemed to be a blatant card, but they killed him off anyway, before we saw any confirmation. That doesn't really count.
They could be pressured by Disney, to an extent, but if they do ever manage to follow through with this idea, I really prefer they make it a gay man, not a woman. This is because TPTB in most of TV think that showcasing lesbians is more safe and acceptable, as highlighted by Heroes' decision to fire an actor just because he could have become a gay character, and then have the brilliant idea of creating a lesbian character instead.
Plus, what can I say, I like slash. 
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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Distress Signal wrote: | Oh dear, not this again. *facepalm*
Danielle was pregnant with Alex ON the ship before she crashed. She gave birth weeks after crashing on the island and they stole it from her, and Ben claimed Alex as his own. He's her adoptive parent, in a sense. There is not the slightest bit of evidence of Danielle getting close to the others, let alone becoming attracted to Ben. I'm sorry, but this always drives me crazy. |
Sorry, been gone for a while, missed that that was discussed and figured out already. And yeah, no love lost between the two (and Alex seemed to not think Ben was her dad, too, which is why I thought that was quirky, anyway.) Didn't mean to beat a dead horse with it. 
| Quote: | Um, now that I got that out of the way.......
I don't know what's going on with the writers. They keep making false promises of a gay character showing up. Tom seemed to be a blatant card, but they killed him off anyway, before we saw any confirmation. That doesn't really count. |
And Tom was also not exactly a main character, either. Even though he was probably gay, I wouldn't count that as a gay character in the same way I would count, say, someone who got a flashback, as being a gay character. We never were asked to see Tom's viewpoint, the way we were asked to see the viewpoints of the flashback characters - and in order for a gay character to "qualify" for me, I'd have to see a flashback, I think.
| Quote: | | They could be pressured by Disney, to an extent, but if they do ever manage to follow through with this idea, I really prefer they make it a gay man, not a woman. This is because TPTB all over TV think that showcasing lesbians is more safe and acceptable, as highlighted by Heroes' decision to fire an actor just because he could have become a gay character, and then have the brilliant idea of creating a lesbian character instead. |
Lesbians are always more acceptable to a TV- and film-viewing audience, because they have not historically been perceived as a 'threat' in the same way gay males have been. (For the record: The "threat" idea is crap, obviously, and the height of stupidity. It should be obvious, but I state it anyway, just in case.) - As a result, I'll agree with you too, in that I would prefer it be a gay male, due to that, and not a villain, as that would be cliche to an extent.
I don't follow Heroes (only saw the season finale, literally), so I can't back you up on this or anything, but if that's true, man, that sucks.
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Distress Signal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| thefilmchick wrote: |
Sorry, been gone for a while, missed that that was discussed and figured out already. And yeah, no love lost between the two (and Alex seemed to not think Ben was her dad, too, which is why I thought that was quirky, anyway.) Didn't mean to beat a dead horse with it. |
It's not really you, and it hasn't really been discussed that much. Lots of people somehow assume that Ben had impregnated Danielle just because Alex was raised with him for 16 years, when the facts of Danielle's story prove blatantly otherwise. Practically everyone makes this assumption and it's so obvious, to me. Well, no offense. I'm anal about this stuff....lol...
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And Tom was also not exactly a main character, either. Even though he was probably gay, I wouldn't count that as a gay character in the same way I would count, say, someone who got a flashback, as being a gay character. We never were asked to see Tom's viewpoint, the way we were asked to see the viewpoints of the flashback characters - and in order for a gay character to "qualify" for me, I'd have to see a flashback, I think. |
Exactly. Making a gay minor character would almost be like making a token gay character, because we wouldn't get to know much about them.
| Quote: | | Lesbians are always more acceptable to a TV- and film-viewing audience, because they have not historically been perceived as a 'threat' in the same way gay males have been. (For the record: The "threat" idea is crap, obviously, and the height of stupidity. It should be obvious, but I state it anyway, just in case.) - As a result, I'll agree with you too, in that I would prefer it be a gay male, due to that, and not a villain, as that would be cliche to an extent. |
Not historically perceived as a 'threat'? How so? This confuses me. How are people threatened by gay men and not gay women? (hoping not to get too off-topic)
| Quote: | | I don't follow Heroes (only saw the season finale, literally), so I can't back you up on this or anything, but if that's true, man, that sucks. |
Well, they could have been rumors, but they seemed to be legitimate. You couldn't just make that up, I don't think. That's a part of why I like to call Heroes the 'Wal-Mart' hit. It panders mainly to the Wal-Mart type audience.
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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Not historically perceived as a 'threat'? How so? This confuses me. How are people threatened by gay men and not gay women? (hoping not to get too off-topic) |
Brief examples, uncited and un-fact checked because I am lazy and it is late and I have a 9 AM class tomorrow that I'm going to oversleep if I don't go to bed in the next hour (sorry!). Also, please note that this is not equating the issues in question - obviously King James Bible is NOT equal to Nazi Germany. Generally, this is a Western phenomenon, as Eastern cultures (whatever the hell Eastern and Western cultures mean (how can you divide it so cleanly?), but it's late) handle sexuality far differently, with the exception of certain sects like the Theravadan Buddhists.
Ancient Greece: gay males = explicitly defined roles, particularly with the teacher-student relationship. Lesbianism flew under the radar, even Sappho.
Ancient Rome: gay males = symbol of decadence, hedonism. Lesbianism was seen as something that simply didn't exist. Women could fool around with other women, and that didn't matter.
King James Bible: gay males = bad, lesbians = who cares. Backed up by other relevant literature of the period which casts homosexuality solely in terms of sodomy; female-on-female contact gets no mention. See also: Thomas Browne, Lancelot Andrewes, various Shakespeare plays (esp. Romeo and Juliet, namely Mercutio), Richard Crashaw's poetry and the critical reaction to its homoerotic content in the context of Catholic literature, the treatment of the Jesuits in 16th/17th century England and the charges of homosexuality leveled against some of them (which at the time was a serious offense). Sorry for the lengthy content for this section, but I have a master's degree in the time period, so I speak here with a little more authority, haha.
Nazi Germany: gay males = major threat, half because of Rohm and half because of rampant machismo. Lesbians = just a phase, they'll grow out of it, classed as crimes against society rather than as homosexuals (given the same black triangles as "asocials," Rroma, and Sinti. Not classed as a sexual crime.
Film and theater = gay males are stereotypical villains; lesbianism flourishes in films of the '20s. Lesbianism openly referenced in films of the '40s made by major Hollywood studios, whereas gay male filmmakers (ie Kenneth Anger, 'Fireworks') are forced to stay underground.
There are numerous other examples, and obviously I am painting with a broad brush, but it has been a trend throughout history that female relationships go unnoticed, whereas male relationships are perceived as a political gambit or threat. Obviously, this is also because males have had power throughout western society, whereas women have largely been relegated to second-class roles, but it still persists in the media of today, I'd argue.
| Quote: | | Exactly. Making a gay minor character would almost be like making a token gay character, because we wouldn't get to know much about them. |
You and I are in absolute agreement here. Hooray.
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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Bumping for Distress Signal. No response to the dissertation? Hee.
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Imaginary Peanut Butter
Intermediate Vidder
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 154
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Nah, I always got the impression Michael fancied Sun 
Last edited by Imaginary Peanut Butter on Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SassyLostie2
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Who did? *is confused*
Tom was pretty gay...at least he seemed gay...and then Richard is always wearing makeup...  But really, I think they just dropped the ball on this one and might not really have a plan for this one. Then again, for all we know, Jack and Sawyer could get tired of waiting on Kate to choose and then we have two gay (bi) characters. rofl Just kidding.
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