Lost Video Island

AlcoholicPixie · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:27 am Post subject:

((PS: Page Claim!))

Wow. I missed this whole topic since yesterday!

Having read everyone's replies all the way through (yes, even Marcus' death-posts

) I'd like to put forward a few of my own opinions on the matter. Sorry if I repeat anything that people have already said, but my memory is a bit like a sieve around Christmas-time.

Which is my first point. People shouldn't be arguing at Christmas! It's a time for being happy and nice to friends and family (even if you don't want to

)

First off, everyone (meaning the arguments and their counter-arguments) has made good points about this very sensitive topic. I whole-heartedly agree with Aislynn and her 'try it on for size' policy. Having beta'd vids for a few people myself, I can testify to the fact that it really does make you sit up and realise exactly what it takes to really make a vid kick ass.

And it's not just the program. WMM, although you may not be able to do really fancy stuff like you can do with Vegas, is still a very good program. I mean, look at me - I screwed up my computer after I'd made my first few vids with WMM2 (which didn't gain any kind of CP), and then managed to get two Golds using WMM1! Then my third Gold for Sins was partly done with WMM1 and Vegas. So it really doesn't matter what vidding program you use.

As someone who has received both a Silver and some Golds, I can understand the 'mentality' that some can get into - you start becoming complacent that your vid is going to do well, because your other vids have done. But each video is judged objectively - and I'm a prime example of this. Take my Any Other Name vid, for example. To be honest, I don't think it deserved the Silver it got, let alone anything more. But I had two Gold CPs before that vid, which proves that the extremely hard-working CMs on this site judge videos purely on their own, regardless of whether the vidder has had Golds before.

I think another controversial topic on this site that I now feel brave enough to bring up (thanks to Becca and someone else who shall remain nameless unless they wish to identify themselves - they know who they are) is the 'Council Member Video' thing. To be totally honest, I don't like the fact that the CMV rosette is the same colour as the Gold. I don't know exactly how to put this, so if I upset anyone please take it at face value with no malicious intent, but in my opinion they should be a different colour. 99% of the CM vids are obviously deserving of the Gold picks, and I have no problem with that... but there are some that might be slightly more deserving of a Silver. I think that it would be better if the CM vids were still judged purely on merit and given the CPs they deserve, but have a different colour rosette for their CMV status - just to differentiate between them.

Merry Christmas to everyone at LVI and never forget that we're all friends here and in the grand scheme of things, the CPs are nothing more than colours on a screen. Yes, it's wonderful to receive one, but it's not the end of the world if you don't.

AP x
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Supernatural Video Station

Fan4Lost · Advanced Vidder Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 2224

0mg Marcus....shut up u n00b. XDDDDDDD7DDDDDDmevie

marcus · Expert Vidder Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 4541

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It's official - Aislynn is 36. Add a 0 to the end of that and you've got a full circle.

Polarbear · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject:

aw xgene don't leave! I appreciate your comments and agree with them on the whole. I think your spat with Jen was just a misunderstanding. I think this thread has gotten way out of hand so I am going to close it.
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Hobbes · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:50 am Post subject:

Awwww... you know, I'm so proud of you guys *sniff* That was such a grown-up, well-voiced argument from both sides, with pretty-much every single point here I can understand and agree on, even the conflicting ones

.

And sorry Paul, but I think something this well argued and important shouldn't be closed, no matter how out of hand, so I just opened it back up. (Btw xgene, I don't think anyone was targetting you, so get back here

. And thanks for a lot of what you said, it's really really nice to know that there, in fact, isn't some sort of invisible wall of malice coming from everyone else towards us CMs

. Even though I know that isn't really true, it's still really nice for it to be proven.)

First up: KC's vid, because that's what sparked this all.

I just PMed KC a bit before this, before I read this thread or fully realized what had happened. All I really knew was that there was some sort of controvercy over "Scorned"
. This sent a lump into my throat because... well... I am that mysterious second voter who gave this vid a silver

.

My reasoning: I was very impressed with the story and originality of the vid. I had never seen someone use such a great twist in a vid. That was enough to bump it way up to the Silver/Gold line.
What kept me from voting gold was three things:
1. I knew the song very well, and for a lot of the vid there seemed to be parts that didn't have all that much point to them. Filler clips.
2. the vid was lacking in beat use, and was slightly messy.
3. In the voting system, it's 3 votes for each vids, then it gets the CP. Mine was #2, Aislynn had already given a glowing "Gold!" in #1, so since I was kinda iffy about basically guarenteeing a Gold, I voted Silver to tie it up for the third person to make the call. He did, and it ended up as you saw.

I did all this after watching KC's vid, which I just happened to notice, after a long day of hooking up some new LVI web stuff. You should know that for the last few months I really haven't voted much, as I just don't like it usually

and I try to keep my time centered on the thing I'm actually useful for

. However, I figured that at least I could post a vote and help out Aislynn and co., since I was watching the vid anyway.

Little-did-I-know my bumbling judgement could spark this!

Anyway, the problem is solved now, as it would have been even without the controvercy

There may have been 2 votes for Silver at first, but that wasn't the majority of actual CM votes (even if they came afterwards) so since the actual tally is about 4 Golds vs 2 Silvers (and Paul took his vote back, AND I change my vote based on the revised version of KCs) so it gets a good, solid gold. This happens with other vids sometimes too, you just don't notice it usually

...

And before I close on this, let me say.... I'm sorry

. Really sorry.

Sorry for people losing their faith in LVI.. I really didn't mean it.

Second: The voting system.
You all have a very accurate grasp of it, and Aislynn really explained everything very well in her first post. As far as mechanics go though, I'll explain again:

A video gets sent into LVI. It goes directly to a CM-only "Staging Area" where we view the vids waiting to be added. There, a CM views the vids, checks for clip theft as best they can, and then posts them to the site.
Now that the vids are visible, and the LVI Bot posts are made, the judging is commenced. The vids sit in a special CM Voting forum, and then are voted on by CMs. We do it forum-style, posting an honest comment about why we vote a certain way, then post our vote: "None" "Silver" or "Gold".
Ever since the Silver CP was implemented, we have been voting the following way: 3 CMs vote, the majority wins. (( i.e. 2 Silvers, 1 Gold = Silver. 1 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 None = Silver (since the "Gold" and "None" cancel out). Etc. )). It's simple, it's fast, and it's largely necessary

. The closest number we could make as the minimum votes otherwise would be 5 - which is way too many CMs - or try to make it so we come to a unanimous agreement... which I can say does NOT happen often.
So that's how it goes. 3 votes, then a vid gets its CP (or not). Or how it used to be anyway.
Lately, we've (by which I mean, the others

) have been trying to make this more transparent, and make discussions about vids, etc, before they go through if there's a big discrepancy. Furthermore, we do revotes for any vid that wants one. They don't often change the outcome, but they sometimes do, as you may have noticed. The point is, we're trying to get LVI to a point where the CMs can make changes to vids on the fly, and not be bogged down by the system. This is what was happening when this topic came up, and I think may help push us to try harder at doing it

I'm thinking up some ways to make it a lot easier too... some things I can actually be useful in creating

hmmm...

Oh, and I'm also sorry for the secrecy around here

. You should know that since LVI started we've been less and less secret about stuff

, but that doesn't change the fact that there are still some things that the CMs talk about away from the public, like what to do with the voting system after this controvercy, for instance, or just the voting system in general. Most of it is to protect people from being offended, particularly in the voting, and part of it is to help us do the job, because we know we're at least voting and discussing annonymously, so there aren't as many hurt feelings. This is why it's so hard to vote on friends' videos, and why it's even HARDER to vote on our own. Which brings me to me next point:

fallen_angel · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:34 am Post subject:

my eyes are blurry

nicely summed up Warren

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Pirates 3 - MAY 25th 2007!!!

mistojen · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:57 am Post subject:

I didnt think it was possible to write a longer reply to anything than Marcus or Aislynn, but Warren, my GOD, you have proven me wrong!

*does obligatory Warrenette cartwheel and a backflip to spruce up the routine*

I'm not going to try to reply to everything cuz that'll take me ages. BUT...I'm really glad you felt you could re-open this thread for discussion. I'm especially glad that it's because you feel that we're mature enough to continue discussion without flaming. I hope sincerely that you're right and I have a feeling that you are

I was kinda scared to see that you'd re-opned this and posted, to be honest, but I'm glad that you did. Thank you for being so frank and honest with us, Warren, at your own/CMs' expense, even though I don't feel you should have had to reveal ALL your CM secrets to feel like we're appeased. You shouldn't have had to and I'm sorry, honestly, that you did, because now our discussion has thrown a wrench into the CM-process, has it not? For that, and for my participation in the discussion that made you feel it necessary to share...I am sorry.

Much love, GOD. Much love. *one more Warrenette cartwheel*

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Hobbes · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:22 am Post subject:

mistojen · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:36 am Post subject:

fallen_angel · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:01 am Post subject:

now you have 2 golds WOOT!!!!!111!!!!

:

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Pirates 3 - MAY 25th 2007!!!

mistojen · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:08 am Post subject:

yes, yes I do. *cartwheels* ...wait, those are reserved for Warren... *dances instead*

WOOHOO!

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rbexter93 · Expert Vidder Joined: 24 Mar 2006 Posts: 3270

Thanks Warren, it's good to see that you can see the point behind my post. I hope you realise I wasn't saying anything bad about the CM's, your awsome! Just at the way voting is often done. I think that possibly this topic is ready to fizzzle out anyway.
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PsychoCynic · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject:

In the spirit of the holidays, "Bah Humbug!"

All these council picks business drives me crazy. If I vid again, I'm going to vid to please myself and anyone else that might be pleased by the vid, but I'm not going to have that golden fleece - gold pick, I mean (English class is stuck in my head for some reason) - motivate me.

I think my chances of being one of the best 25 vidders are pretty much shot anyway.

--

And if you completely ignored that, which you probably should've since I was just rambling, I just wanted to thank Warren for re-opening this thread simply because I think everyone has a right to voice their opinions in a forum especially when the opinions are voiced properly and non-hurtfully.

That said, I'm sure the little tiff that occurred earlier one between xgene and Jen (was it you, Jen?) was just a big misunderstanding, so come back xgene - I miss your Jawyer banner!

P.S. Congrats to all those that got some of their vids "upgraded."

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AlcoholicPixie · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:

SuperKC · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:

First, Warren, I think it says a lot that you were happy to re-open this thread. Not just that you did it, but that you took it upon yourself because you felt that the discussion that was going on in here had merit and value. I think that every single person who ever had doubts about the fairness of anyone at the helm can squash those thoughts right now. These are the people that we're dealing with. Remember that.

I'm not sure how I feel about your decision to reveal how you all voted. Not that I mind. I only hope that this isn't expected from now on. I DON'T want you guys to feel afraid to vote honestly. I certainly hope that is not what has happened here.

Regarding the CM videos. I personally am satisfied with it being called something different, yet retaining the gold seal. I agree with Warren's hypothetical about any further differentiating might be seen as putting those vids on a bigger pedistal than gold. I know that some people take issue with the fact that the videos count towards your hall of fame as well. That I can't comment on. I don't know how that could possibly be remedied or that it needs to be. Because your vids are not voted on, there's no way you can earn a gold or even a silver. So if we take that away from you, then what is your incentive to keep serving as a CM? I know the job is not an easy one. There is probably a way to set up voting that is hidden from the CM in question, that way you could all rightfully earn your CPs . But it just seems like a lot of hassle. So my "expert" opinion on that matter is that unless someone can come up with a brilliant idea that won't further differentiate council members vids from the rest of the group, then I don't think it needs to be messed with.

PS - What about a Platinum CP? .... kidding. Mostly. LOL.