Joined: 02 Mar 2008 Posts: 15576 Location: Wigan, England
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: 6x15 - Across The Sea
Centric:
Spoiler:
MIB/Jacob
Synopsis:
Spoiler:
The motives of John Locke are finally explained.
Enjoy it, have fun discussing the episode (we ain't gots many left *sob*), and please remember to be respectful of everyone's opinions! Don't forget to check out this thread: Spoilery icons/banners & general spoiler reminder _________________
I'm really excited about this episode, finally I can see us getting some answers/ explenations. Or at least begin to answer some questions! _________________
Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 4030 Location: Albany, NY
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:08 am Post subject:
Curious how Jacob does not apparently deserve blame when it seemed a pretty clear case of "murder" (such as it was) to me.
Things I learned from this episode:
* People in Ancient Rome apparently wore pants.
* The heart of the island looks remarkably like the golden-light pit in the Indiana Jones and the Search for Atlantis computer game I had in the mid-90s.
* Saying Jacob's name all the time does not mean you will say his brother's name at similarly convenient times--not because of the name, but because the writing/the plot demands it, no matter how awkward.
* Saying 'across the sea' when you would logically say the place name similarly is a sacrifice the island... er, the plot contrivances... demand.
* Jacob sounds a hell of a lot like Forrest Gump at times. _________________ I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect.
Curious how Jacob does not apparently deserve blame when it seemed a pretty clear case of "murder" (such as it was) to me.
Things I learned from this episode:
* People in Ancient Rome apparently wore pants.
* The heart of the island looks remarkably like the golden-light pit in the Indiana Jones and the Search for Atlantis computer game I had in the mid-90s.
* Saying Jacob's name all the time does not mean you will say his brother's name at similarly convenient times--not because of the name, but because the writing/the plot demands it, no matter how awkward.
* Saying 'across the sea' when you would logically say the place name similarly is a sacrifice the island... er, the plot contrivances... demand.
* Jacob sounds a hell of a lot like Forrest Gump at times.
I wasn't talking about 'killing'. I was talking about making him the smoke monster.
I don't think Jacob knew the aftermath of that. Which MIB now blames him for.
I also think he doesn't have a soul, so there for he must keep him on the island now, so if he doesn't have a soul, he should be kept on the island so he can't hurt people.
I blame it on their mother, she should have been up front with them. She kind of played them both, and against one another.
Jacob needed her approval, MIB always had it, so I knew Jacob would have stayed.
Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 4030 Location: Albany, NY
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:22 am Post subject:
Even in that scene, I still don't think it's as blameless as you imply (man, it seems like every episode we're attributing blame differently--I think we may have different ethics within the context of the show [not to imply that either one of us is more right than the other, just that we view the same events differently]):
When Jacob dragged MiB towards the Heart of the Island, MiB was all, 'Wait, what's going on? Where are you taking me?' Dragging someone towards the big unknown void of something and tossing them in there is not, to me, an act which is entirely pure and innocent. I think we saw hints this episode that neither Jacob nor MiB is entirely what they've been portrayed to be, and Jacob's actions this episode are pretty straight evidence of that.
I agree on your comments about Stepmom, though: Stepmom should have been up front with both kids, and not doing so screwed up them both. Especially when the kids got to be teenagers, like they were throughout the first half of the show: Concealing secrets is invariably damaging, because the kids will almost always find out and feel betrayed. (If nothing else teaches us this, watch any episode of Maury Povich's paternity test extravaganza. Haha.) _________________ I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect.
Even in that scene, I still don't think it's as blameless as you imply (man, it seems like every episode we're attributing blame differently--I think we may have different ethics within the context of the show [not to imply that either one of us is more right than the other, just that we view the same events differently]):
When Jacob dragged MiB towards the Heart of the Island, MiB was all, 'Wait, what's going on? Where are you taking me?' Dragging someone towards the big unknown void of something and tossing them in there is not, to me, an act which is entirely pure and innocent. I think we saw hints this episode that neither Jacob nor MiB is entirely what they've been portrayed to be, and Jacob's actions this episode are pretty straight evidence of that.
I agree on your comments about Stepmom, though: Stepmom should have been up front with both kids, and not doing so screwed up them both. Especially when the kids got to be teenagers, like they were throughout the first half of the show: Concealing secrets is invariably damaging, because the kids will almost always find out and feel betrayed. (If nothing else teaches us this, watch any episode of Maury Povich's paternity test extravaganza. Haha.)
I guess we might. The way MIB explained it, his brother wanted it to happen, I was disagreeing with MIB about Jacob.
I also took his hurt in effect too, Jacob's. Just like the reason he killed mommy dearest, it was out of hurt. They both dispalyed that, that hurt in the same ways, they are related.
I guess I don't know how to word what I feel for Jacob. I mean, he shouldn't have done it, but his reasons where not to make him a blob of smoke. I think this episode should have been longer because I still of course have questions about everything.
I think they acted out of rage, both of them. I blame him to a point.
I feel there was still a big mysterious sheet over the episode. It was still very vague.
I guess I should blame Jacob.
But what I found interesting was the way they both hurt and then grieved for what they did.
I thought Jacob was 'slow'. Especially in the beginning, had a innocence to him, and very much like Forrest Gump (LOL).
I think that's why she thought WHATS HIS NAME (MIB) was supposed to be the protector, because he was more 'ruthless', could 'lie'. Also because he wasn't planned, in the pregnancy.
Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 30478 Location: With Anna Torv... somewhere ;)
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:08 am Post subject:
okay well apart from learning how MIB became the smoke monster I didn't' learn much and am still very confused...would have much rather seen an episode with the regular cast...I think I enjoyed the ending the most since we finally got to see who Adam and Eve were. _________________
I am finding myself woefully inept to decipher everything that was buried in this episode, but HOLY CROW--it was good!
First, I about died laughing: "Every question I answer will only lead to more questions." Clever writers! I guess we can pretty much abandon all hope that all our questions will be answered.
I loved the things that were straight forward: that they're brothers, how they got there, and generally what led them to where they both are/ended up, and the origin of "Adam and Eve". (Which, btw, to echo Brooke, I love the way that was handled.)
However, I did feel a little short changed in other areas: the background of AJ's character, why pockets of light and magnetivity would translate (in MIB's mind) to a way off the island, and why MIB thought making a hole and attaching the "donkey wheel" to it would get them off the island. Obviously, we know he was right, but how did he know that? Yes, I know he told AJ that he just knows because he's special, but that seemed like a bit of a cop out to me. I hope that we'll somehow learn why the island works the way that it does. Why did MIB turn into the smoke monster just because he went into that hole?
They answered some questions, but the answers only led to more questions. L. O. L.
XD
P.S. So, is it safe to say that Jacob represents man *before* "taking a bite of the apple", and MIB represents man with the sin of knowledge? Or something? _________________
Last edited by eloramoon on Wed May 12, 2010 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total
It was a very vague episode. I think it needed to be longer, unless they're going to touch up on it more.
I'm still on Jacob's side.... Because even after that episode, MIB's actions this season aren't justifiable...
Agreed. He killed innocent people, and it wasn't their fault what happened to him.
I'm still Team Jacob.
It was MIB that caused her to kill the mom, and take both kids. I want to know what she saw in him. I too feel like Jacob was the second choice because MIB was leaving.
That's what this season did, it answered questions but gave more questions for us to want questions on.
And then it got annoying because I don't want more questions, I want the questions I want answered to be answered. LOL.
Last edited by Brooke on Wed May 12, 2010 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 13684 Location: having a bowl of brown with Davos
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:32 am Post subject:
Really enjoyed the episode but I have some problems.. if they're twins why do they not look anything like each other? And why do they still have american accents before america presumably even existed? Weird stuff I really hope they explain it and it hasn't turned into Stargate where all aliens speak american.
I'm saying it now if Jacob and MIB's 'mum' represents the supposed good side of the island I don't buy it because she seems more like the bad to me. Killing their real mother because she 'doesn't belong.' What an evil cow. Reminded me of when Widmore wanted to kill Alex.
Loved how they humanised both Jacob and MIB. They both did pretty terrible things yet I still feel bad for both of them. Maybe Jacob didn't know what would happen but he did know it was a fate worse than death which can't be good.
Really liked the Adam and Eve reveal because that's what I expected it to be. No messy time travel needed here. _________________
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Don't forget to check out this thread: 
Was it still there? I wasn't sure....
I guess we can pretty much abandon all hope that all our questions will be answered. 
