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Jemmz
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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ROFL!!! |
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Charmed_Charlee
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lmao, I'm joining the group  Except for running round nekked |
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Lostwithoutdom
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| charmed_charlie wrote: | | Lmao, I'm joining the group Except for running round nekked |
lol me 2!  ( besides, you'd probably get all scratched up if you ran around the jungle naked) lol
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Lostwithoutdom
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| charmed_charlie wrote: | | Lmao, I'm joining the group Except for running round nekked |
lol me 2! ( besides, you'd probably get all scratched up if you ran around the jungle naked) lol
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Charmed_Charlee
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Lol Yep Wouldn't fancy gettin scratched tehe |
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Noj
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Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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It's Return of the Noj.
And I'm sure none of you missed me, seeing as I haven't been here since the season 3 finale which so completely pissed me off.
Ok this start to the season is...in the balance. The second it started it let me down, with Naomi just managing to creep away unnoticed, like Sylar at the end of Heroes  So it's a bad start for the realism stakes. Overall...it was just rather steady, not much happened. Separating up the group into two halves is an obvious storyline really. We don't have the others so lets have two factions as it were. Locke is as irritating as ever, shame that gun wasn't loaded. Claire doesn't have much to do now since they killed Charlie off, with that relationship having never got properly off the ground *sigh*. Um...a good bit of Jate stuff coming up I think, Skate's been separated up, and it's basically just set stuff up. And the walk back to the beach, where they end up at the cockpit. What the hell is that? Nobody's been there since episode 1, season 1. Come on.
However, the flash forward was good. It's set up a good story that I actually want to see now. So the on-island stuff isn't looking too promising really, seems a tad corny, but the off-island flash forwards look promising to me, a good interesting story, and I can only hope they don't balls that up like the rest of Lost.
However, there are a couple of good points that always redeem Lost for me:
-Matthew Fox doing a great job as Jack
-Evangeline Lilly. She just looks so damn nice when she's grubby or wet 
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Jemmz
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you, Noj. I found myself mocking some of this ep. Especially at Naomi. I was like "She can hardly talk yet she can get up, run off, climb a tree and hold a knife to Kate's throat." lol.
btw, I adore your sig. Lol! |
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HobbitRockGod
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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It freaked me out when there was blood dripping from the tree and then Naomi jumped down with a knife!  I guess it is odd that she was able to do that thirty seconds before she died, but you know, the island is all magical and everything....lol.
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littleton_pace
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Noj wrote: | | Locke is as irritating as ever, shame that gun wasn't loaded. Claire doesn't have much to do now since they killed Charlie off, with that relationship having never got properly off the ground |
agree with you totally about locke; cant stand the guy. hopefully he stays on the island but i disagree about claire not having anything to do. As much as i love charlie, i feel claire was cast aside with him especially in season two and three. apart from maternity leave; she really only had scenes with or about her relationship with charlie. with him no gone; i feel it opens up her character to go a million different places. she could turn completely dark or something. i think his death will be a turning point for her character. at least i hope it is because claire has been absolutely the most neglected character in all three seasons. also, i do think they 'got off the ground' as a couple. they were a couple in season three. thats part of the reason i think i can make peace with charlies death because i feel they did get together in the end.
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Hobbes
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Distress Signal wrote: |
Exactly. Ironic in a way that this whole time we've been hit over the head with 'Man of Science' vs. 'Man of Faith', and that Jack bases all his actions on scientific evidence while Locke goes on instinct and faith. Now the tables have turned, and evidence and logic is on Locke's side while Jack reacts purely out of no logic but emotion. That's going to come back and bite him in the ass. |
EXACTLY.
When that whole "Man of Science, Man of Faith" thing started, I was actually confused as to who was who. Because those tables have always been the way they are. Jack has always been a man of emotion rather than logic - chasing his dad's ghost in White Rabbit even though he knew he "was not there". And Locke has always been a man of logic. The only times we've ever seen him break were when he couldn't figure out what to do (like when Boone died, but the hatch still wouldn't open. Locke wasn't crying just about Boone's death, but about the island forsaking him, and him being "wrong"). To him, the island has always been something he could predict, so long as he knew what ingredients were in the equation. I think, in his mind, it operated on rules - just not the ones we were used to. And for the longest time, we didn't know those rules, and neither did Jack, but Locke did. And so he seemed to be the crazy one, who did things for no reason at all. But that's because we just didn't know all that he did.
But now, I think it's a little more clear that... that's not the case. Jack's still the one who operates on emotion more than anything. Even when faced with life-affecting matters, he still follows his heart. Take the season finale, when he beat-up Ben, for an example.
And Locke, we're finally starting to figure out where he's coming from. He's still got "some explaining to do", but he does have reasons for everything he does.
That's how I see the two, anyway.
Now, I think where a lot of people lose track of things is when they start to think about the characters morally. As in, one's right and one's wrong. I don't look at the two this way. I mean, yes, if I was on the island, I would probably never trust Locke. I doubt I'd even pick his side in this (I'd probably follow Sayid wherever he goes, since I wouldn't trust momentarily-crazy Jack either). But I don't love Locke because I think he's a good guy. I actually would love him more if he were a straight-up bad guy. I just love him because he's fascinating.
The way he casted off the reality of the old world and immediately embraced the island's, and the power/knowledge it gave him. The way he himself treats everyone on the island like they're part of a game - like everyone, even himself, is a piece on a puzzle. The way he distances himself from all of them emotionally (he didn't even mourn Charlie, he immediately used his death to sway Hurley though) by doing this. It's all fascinating. He's a character who is very messed-up, though in an incredibly advantageous way. He destroyed everything he was before the island and became this magic man, and we get to find out why. I love him because everytime I learn something new about him - his past, his relationship with the island, his breaking points - it all fits into a piece of the puzzle of his character (and the puzzle HAS been a workable one. So much of his character is understandable if you just look carefully enough). He's the most interesting and unique character in any show I know. And that is why I love him. I don't care if he's a big meanie. I don't care if he seems crazy to everyone else but him. I don't care if he's the real villain behind this whole show. He is fascinating.
I don't "get" Jack because: there's nothing to get. He operates on obvious emotions all the time, jumping from one thing to the next. But he doesn't always do it the exact same. He's all over the place, doing something here - something there. He's unpredictable that way. And he's not interesting enough to bother with.
Locke one the other hand... everything he does, he does for a reason. And that reason is still being worked-out. He thinks ahead with each action, he calculates each move. He knows what he's doing every time. We just don't know what it is yet. But that path to figuring it out is exactly where the show's story itself is going. And it fascinates me  |
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SuperKC
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Distress Signal wrote: | | Jack reacts purely out of no logic but emotion. That's going to come back and bite him in the ass. |
- Okay but why did Hurley feel regret for going with Locke then?
| Hobbes wrote: | I don't "get" Jack because: there's nothing to get. He operates on obvious emotions all the time, jumping from one thing to the next. But he doesn't always do it the exact same. He's all over the place, doing something here - something there. He's unpredictable that way. And he's not interesting enough to bother with.
Locke one the other hand... everything he does, he does for a reason. And that reason is still being worked-out. He thinks ahead with each action, he calculates each move. He knows what he's doing every time. We just don't know what it is yet. But that path to figuring it out is exactly where the show's story itself is going. And it fascinates me |
You and your Locke love. Will it never end? Hahaha. Locke bothers me because he's always been more willing to follow the island, than he has been to help people? If that makes sense. He even got Sawyer to kill a man for him in order to get into the island's or the others' or Jacob's (whatever) good graces. I think we can all agree that Cooper was scum. But his death and Locke's engineering of it, changes who Locke is and what he's willing to do because of all these crazy (though calculated!) ideas he's got.
It wasn't about Cooper. (It was about Sawyer on some level, obviously.) But it was also about Locke and who he is. That moment that he decided to take someone's life, to become a murderer, even indirectly... it's important. And I think that decision says a lot about Locke.
Now he's not just crazy Locke who wants to marry the island. He's crazy Locke who doesn't think twice of throwing a knife into the back of a woman he's never met.
Why is he so concerned all of a sudden with saving people? He could give two shits about that before now. It's convenient for him. The fact that these people on the boat aren't exactly who they say they are, and may be up to no good, is useful to him because it gives him sway. Now people will listen to them because their lives might be at stake. He's using that.
Maybe it's fascinating, but I find it his blind faith (I still think he's the man of faith) obnoxious.
From your description above, it seems like you're saying Jack is some erratic loony who makes decisions with no reason. But I think he always has a reason. He's trying to do what is best for everyone, he's trying to get them home. Sometimes he may be stubborn, and sure he's not always right. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying his damnedest to keep them all safe from harm.
And no, my Jack love will never end. 
Also! HI WARREN! |
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wolffootball37
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually agree with both your points. Warren, yours about Locke, and KC yours about Jack. That is why i love Locke so much though Warren, is because you DONT know his motives or what he knows. Its sooo fun to have these serious debates without someone saying "u suck" anyway keep going! *grabs popcorn and soda* |
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Hobbes
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
- Okay but why did Hurley feel regret for going with Locke then? |
Damned if I know! But it's likely Locke's plan worked out exactly how he wanted it to go. It just didn't benefit Hurley, or the others
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You and your Locke love. Will it never end? Hahaha. Locke bothers me because he's always been more willing to follow the island, than he has been to help people? If that makes sense. He even got Sawyer to kill a man for him in order to get into the island's or the others' or Jacob's (whatever) good graces. I think we can all agree that Cooper was scum. But his death and Locke's engineering of it, changes who Locke is and what he's willing to do because of all these crazy (though calculated!) ideas he's got.
It wasn't about Cooper. (It was about Sawyer on some level, obviously.) But it was also about Locke and who he is. That moment that he decided to take someone's life, to become a murderer, even indirectly... it's important. And I think that decision says a lot about Locke.
Now he's not just crazy Locke who wants to marry the island. He's crazy Locke who doesn't think twice of throwing a knife into the back of a woman he's never met.
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Couldn't agree more. When he killed his dad, he basically gave himself over to the island completely. There is no turning back now. And thus, he puts his faith in it completely - so much so that he'll willingly kill a stranger just because it told him to. He has to.
But as I just pointed out: that doesn't matter. I don't care if Locke is the biggest evil on the island, and is planning to kill everyone. Though at this point, if someone were to claim that I would probably disagree, seeing as how he really has gone to extremes to avoid violence - even making Sawyer do the dirty work Cooper-wise because he just couldn't do it. I'm not so sure he could "pull the trigger" on someone he knows, like Jack can - and just did . Killing "the bad guy" is one thing - hell, Hurley did it in the Season 3 finale! He ran an Other over with a freaking truck! Killing one of their own is another.
But regardless. My love for his character doesn't lie in him being "good". It lies in him being a fascinating character that seems to always know what to do, always have a plan - that is often right - and is the only one on the island who treats the unknown like it should be treated. Everyone else on that place goes "oh, a smoke monster. Better avoid that", or sits back in denial about it. Locke, on the other hand, gets intrigued by it and goes in for a closer look, studying it. He's a scientist. He wants to know the answers. That's why he rules.
You know what bugs me? The stereotype that, when a scientist is stuck somewhere where things don't operate by the laws of physics or whatever, and things seem strange, that he'll just back off from it all, go "this isn't possible!!!", and try to cling to old understandings, trying to ignore the magic. No, that's bullcrap. A real scientist would look at every one of those imperfections obsessively and try to figure out some explanation. If they didn't fit in with the known laws, then he'd replace those laws with new ones. All he'd need is some initial proof that the regular laws may not apply - like a purple sky, a smoke monster, or a crippled man waking up healed. Locke had that. He knew there was something "special" about the island, and so he went in with an open mind - and he got answers.
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Why is he so concerned all of a sudden with saving people? He could give two shits about that before now. It's convenient for him. The fact that these people on the boat aren't exactly who they say they are, and may be up to no good, is useful to him because it gives him sway. Now people will listen to them because their lives might be at stake. He's using that.
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Also couldn't agree more. He is totally using them. Whether using them is also to their advantage or not is up in the air though. As is his motives. He may "give two shits". It's funny how he always seems to be the one there with a plan to save everyone when they're truly in danger (E.g. Ethan's attacks, the S1 finale hatch thing, the Others). He puts himself in the "save everyone" position a lot. Though he always seems to have other motives behind it. But like I said, I don't really care. I just don't think it's cut and dry right now (just like I don't care if he "killed" Boone or not. But I don't think it's a clear issue, or ever will be)
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Maybe it's fascinating, but I find it his blind faith (I still think he's the man of faith) obnoxious.
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Well, I think he's closer to holding both titles at this point. heh. He's a man of faith in that he puts his trust in the island. But he does that because he's been provided with plenty of evidence that doing that... works! That, and he always holds himself in such a cool, collected, logical fashion. Polar opposite to reckless Jack (more on that below).
| Quote: |
From your description above, it seems like you're saying Jack is some erratic loony who makes decisions with no reason. But I think he always has a reason. He's trying to do what is best for everyone, he's trying to get them home. Sometimes he may be stubborn, and sure he's not always right. But that doesn't mean he isn't trying his damnedest to keep them all safe from harm. |
lol true. But he's still often the one making all the irrational, reckless, and just plain stupid decisions.
From when he was a kid, trying to save his little friend from the bullies - but only ending-up getting himself beat-up too, to his overly-aggressive and reckless conduct at The Line in season 2 (you know, where he almost gets the party killed, and would have - if it weren't for Kate being held hostage), to now - when he won't listen to facts and show some wariness about this "rescue".
Sure, his heart's in the right place. It always is. But he's far from being rational about a lot of things, and that puts people in danger just as much as if his heart wasn't in the right place. I wouldn't trust him as a leader if I were on the island, and I don't trust him as a leader sitting here watching tv . I can't take all his stupid, stubborn calls anymore. He's always the one in the dark, and yet he's the one who reacts the most. He needs to bloody calm down.
Also: HI KC! |
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HobbitRockGod
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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This has branched into a Jack vs. Locke debate. Interesting. I personally don't care for either character, but debates are (usually) fun to watch. *keeps out of way of debaters, but watches with interest*
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SuperKC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Poor, misunderstood, evil, Locke. He's not exactly the Baltar of LOST though, the unwitting betrayer of his own people, the unintentional ally of the big-bad. Whatever that is.
That's what's always been so frustrating about this show. (As much as I love it!) There has never been clear lines about who or what is good and bad. I mean. Okay, I take that back. Our castaways are clearly our "good" - they're who we're rooting for, regardless of each of their varied sordid pasts.
But as for what's bad? What may appear as being bad until you know the reasons behind it? Etc. Well that parts always been a bit unclear. Maybe the smoke monster is, in fact, a benevolent diety sent to protect our castaways and what we don't know is that there's something else out there, scarier and eviler, and the smoke monster has been keeping it at bay.
Dun dun duuuuun! |
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