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Hobbes
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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 Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
And Jack really does do that a hell of a lot. |
Jack vids are so hard.... sit still dammit!!! 
I thought I was the only one who noticed.  |
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ebizmybef74
Intermediate Vidder
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 2641
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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29. They manage to make Charlie look like an ass.  (Which I'm not too happy about. i.e. even in Confidence Man-the best pb&j episode ever...Charlie looked like an ass when he was trying to get peanuts from Hurley!)
*cries some more*
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marcus
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Has it ever occured to you that Charlie really is an ass, but they try to make him look sweet? 
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ebizmybef74
Intermediate Vidder
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 2641
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: |
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He is not an ass!
[/denial]
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MovieGuy
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Joined: 09 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| He so is |
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Michelina
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Canada, eh?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Okay...I'm not trying to start anything here, but why do so many people believe that Charlie is an ass?
He is not the first person to keep a dark secret or tell a lie. Just because his faults can be easier to pick out over other characters' does NOT make him an ass. He's in a very confused state right now, as other characters on the show have been, and most likely will be if they haven't had their turn yet. I don't think it's fair to call him an ass. He's showed that he is perfectly capable of redeeming himself, though it should be expected that he will screw up now and again, or get on our nerves, just like a realistic character should.
Last time I checked, fans weren't big supporters of Mary Sues - I used to think that most people accepted a character like Charlie for his downsides, but apparently not. I suppose it all adds up to how interested you are concerning character development. Because Charlie's storyline and episodes don't answer questions about island mysteries. or stuff YOU want to see, doesn't make it fair to call him an ass. It's been said that Lost is a redemption story, and Charlie's seems to be developping as we speak.
I personally love Charlie's character - his ups and downs. I think he is genuinely a nice person, who is simply searching to belong somewhere - with Claire and the baby, possibly. But, of course, he will have to work at it, and yes, we will have to watch his story unfold. Even if his storyline doesn't always include key elements to the mysteries of LOST, I find his past and present story interesting, as well as a little heartbreaking to connect with.
ANYWAY, TO STAY ON TOPIC
--Kate insists on taking part in the latest jungle expedition, or whatever the main plot of the episode is! WHEE!
--Season One: Walt asks "why?"
--Locke scratches the top of his head. No, seriously: EVERY DAMN EPISODE.
--Hurley is seen watching a few couples - the island's own, resident Cupid! Aww.
--The extras stand very intensely in the backround for no reason whatsoever.
--When the extras aren't doing THAT, they do something equally useless, such as carrying a hunk of plane wreckage. Cause, yeah...who knows when you might need a random hunk of metal, right? Gah.
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Hobbes
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | who knows when you might need a random hunk of metal, right? |
Someone should make that into a bumper sticker slogan |
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SuperKC
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 3667
Location: On a Stick
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Michelina wrote: | | Okay...I'm not trying to start anything here, but why do so many people believe that Charlie is an ass? |
Let me count the ways.
| Quote: | | He is not the first person to keep a dark secret or tell a lie. |
Guffaw! I beg to differ! He lied to Claire! And then made a mockery of it by "pretending" to get rid of all the drugs when he already had this huge stash out in the jungle! He did it again to Locke! He also lied to Eko! Taking him to some random place in the jungle instead of to the plane crash!
| Quote: | | He's showed that he is perfectly capable of redeeming himself, |
And he's done this how? By kidnapping and injuring Sun for his own sick twisted attempt at revenge? By being a total jackass to Hurley, the absolute nicest kindest person on the island?
| Quote: | | doesn't make it fair to call him an ass |
Of course it does, cause last I checked, he's a fictional character.
My biggest beef with Charlie is that he is very self-serving. Nearly everything he does is about HIMSELF. Not anyone else. You can argue that he's done a lot for Claire (and by extension, Aaron) but I see that as replacing one addiction for another. He and Claire have not really connected. It was more like he was infatuated with her. Look at the way he treated Locke even BEFORE they were in the outs. Like she was his PROPERTY. And what about how he treated Claire? Like she's completely helpless and can't even take care of her own kid? Like Aaron is HIS son? And when Aaron was kidnapped by Danielle? Sayid saved the kid. Charlie just got in the way. He almost ruined the whole thing by yelling at her and calling her a lunatic et. al. It was SAYID to stepped in and saved him. And when they got back? Charlie got all the credit! Maybe asshole isn't the right term (although after what he did to Sun it would be hard not to), but selfish certainly is. Selfish selfish selfish!
BACK ON TOPIC
- Someone stares out into the horizon wistfully. |
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Fan4Lost
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 2224
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: |
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-Sawyer looks hot! (LOL)
-everyone is satisfied with menial vague answers to serious questions |
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Hobbes
Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Hey KC, who would you say is more of an asshole? Sawyer or Charlie?
- Hurley wastes batteries with his walkman |
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Michelina
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Canada, eh?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: |
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KC - I know from your form on the LOST 411 page that you don't like Charlie. You're entitled to your own opinion, and I respect it. I'm glad you answered me and provided strong examples, because I'm sick of hearing "Charlie's an idiot because he whines", and responses along those lines. So, thanks for laying out some points. I agree that some, but not all, of his acts have been selfish. He saw Claire as his chance at redemption as time went on, but I believe that he truely, genuinely likes her. His devotion to her was proved in Raised by Another, and you might see differently, I don't know, but I think it was as much for Claire as it was for him -- possibly even more for Claire.
| Quote: | | And he's done this how? By kidnapping and injuring Sun for his own sick twisted attempt at revenge? By being a total jackass to Hurley, the absolute nicest kindest person on the island? |
What Charlie did to Sun was not justified at all, and I agree that it was a pretty twisted attempt at revenge. Yes, Charlie hasn't been the nicest person to Hurley lately, and I love Hurley. But I can see where Charlie is coming from. At the end of Numbers, when Charlie believed that Hurley was lying about being a millionaire, it wasn't simply because he's a jackass. He had just told Hurley his darkest secret, and when Hurley responded with his, Charlie assumed he was joking; like Hurley was making light of his past as an addict. That's the impression I got, anyway. Now, in Season Two, during EHH when he talked to Hurley about secrets, this is where I think Charlie crossed the line. Charlie has a problem with insisting that he knows everything that is going on with the island - in this case, what's in the hatch - and because he told Hurley his addict secret, and they are generally good friends, Charlie expected Hurley to reveal information that he couldn't. So, in this case, Charlie went a bit overboard, but we all do at times. I felt bad for Hurley in those scenes, yet I could still understand where he was coming from, even if he did screw up.
| Quote: | | Look at the way he treated Locke even BEFORE they were in the outs. Like she was his PROPERTY. And what about how he treated Claire? Like she's completely helpless and can't even take care of her own kid? Like Aaron is HIS son? And when Aaron was kidnapped by Danielle? Sayid saved the kid. Charlie just got in the way. He almost ruined the whole thing by yelling at her and calling her a lunatic et. al. It was SAYID to stepped in and saved him. And when they got back? Charlie got all the credit! Maybe asshole isn't the right term (although after what he did to Sun it would be hard not to), but selfish certainly is. Selfish selfish selfish! |
Charlie's actions in Abandoned were not at all acceptable, but Claire herself had an influence on them. Claire is my favorite character, so I'm speaking as a Claire fan: Up until that point, Claire had allowed Charlie to step in and help her with the baby. Sure, she didn't ask him to like she had asked Locke in Fire + Water, but she never protested against it, either. Charlie assumed that he was allowed to take on the role of the Daddy -which was not entirely good judgement on his part - but again, the fact is, Claire never said anything like "Cool down a bit, Charlie, okay? I need to do this on my own." Claire's just not ready for any man - Locke or Charlie - to take on the role of Aaron's father. I think the scene at the end of Maternity Leave ("You're mine, and I love you") was a way of showing that the writers are moving toward putting Claire in a state of independance. She needs to realize that she can be a good mother on her own without a man's help, and then let this guy step in. Charlie will hopefully realize this in good time.
| Quote: | doesn't make it fair to call him an ass
Of course it does, cause last I checked, he's a fictional character. |
I should have elaborated on that. I just don't like the term asshole in general. I know how immature that must sound, but for me, "asshole" just seems like a word that is used to make up for a lack of a better explanation. You've already brought up some points that go beyond that though, and I've already thanked you for that. 'Selfish' could apply to some of Charlie's acts, but in general, I don't think it is the best word to describe him. Confused, maybe. Lost. Only time will tell what direction Charlie's going to head in next, but once again, Lost is a character study, or so says the writers - yes, even the island is a character - and it is also a redemption story.
quick pimpage:
http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271|99794|1|,00.html
Everyone will get their turn, and although Charlie may not be heroic like Jack, and may have a different idea in future concerning ways to redeem himself, he is only human. His acts might be hard to forgive at times, but ...to call him an asshole irks me just a tad, which is why I replied here in the first place, not to start an argument. To call any of these characters an asshole seems a little strange, especially because it is this show, a show circling around second (or more) chances.
I know you'll probably have many things to say against this, and will most likely express these things, but I don't want to turn this into an argument. I just wanted to stand up for Charlie - if it were any other character, there probably would have been loads more to step up to the plate, too.
*deep breath*
on topic
--Someone takes advantage of island life (e.g fruit, plants) and uses it as innuendo. See: Kate throwing a banana at Sawyer. See also: Jack and his damn guava seeds. If that wasn't a move on Kate, then Boone and Shannon weren't related by blood. Oh, wait...
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Last edited by Michelina on Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:05 am; edited 7 times in total |
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Fan4Lost
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Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 2224
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: |
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(Michelina....your website ROCKS!!!!!)
- Jack cries (i had to put it down again)
- Jack is mad at Kate
- Jack is mad at Locke
- Sawyer is mad at Jack
- A fish dies
- Kate is picking fruit
- Hurley falls down
- Someone refers to Scott/Steve |
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Michelina
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Canada, eh?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Fan4Lost wrote: | (Michelina....your website ROCKS!!!!!)
- Jack cries (i had to put it down again)
- Jack is mad at Kate
- Jack is mad at Locke
- Sawyer is mad at Jack
- A fish dies
- Kate is picking fruit
- Hurley falls down
- Someone refers to Scott/Steve |
Aww, thank-you, Steph! That was quite random! But I appreciate the compliment, hee.
Lmao, nice points. "A fish dies." Heh.
--The music of DOOM. The uncomfortable, ringing noise when something extremely intense or cliff-hangy happens. I know it's a must, and has to be used when fading out to commercials, but JESUS, it still scares me. You know what I'm talking about, right? The "bwoooooooooong" noise. Except, it sounds more like "dooooooooooooooooooooooooooom." if you listen close enough. Yes, it is in every friggin episode - most times, it's used when there's no real doom at all. For instance, during In Translation when we find out Sun speaks english.
Sun: STOP. LEAVE HIM ALONE.
[everyone stares at sun]
Sun: Oh sh*t.
MUSIC OF DOOOOOOOOOOM.
[cut to black]
That was one of the cases where the music of d00m gave me an unecessary heart attack.
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PsychoCynic
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Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1795
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Ohh, fun thread. 
Um, all you guys are probably a heck of a lot more observant than I am, but ...
1) Michael acts as a way overprotective father to Walt (are these two ever coming back ... it seems like they've been off the show forever  )
2) Sayid fixes/tries to fix something
3) The numbers are shown in one way or another
Pretty dumb examples, I know. I'll try to think of better ones!
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SuperKC
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Hobbes wrote: | | Hey KC, who would you say is more of an asshole? Sawyer or Charlie? |
Sawyer is an ass, but he owns his assness. Charlie is completely unapologetic. It's very "poor me" about the whole thing. Doesn't even realize how selfish he's being. So I'd say Charlie. Although I think selfish is the better term, as I said before. Sawyer is a "love to hate" kind of guy. And Charlie is just... not. Sawyer is much more malicious about it. It's not really a fair comparison. |
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