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Lost Video Island
A Multifandom Vidding site
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Fan4Lost
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 2224
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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm not riled up! Trust me if I was riled up people would know.  Ask Paul and Nate and anybody else here who has known this past year. I'm just practicing my right to freedom of speech. And Paul you are right, if people don't like the CP voting system, they will probably just leave anyway. HAHA! Feed the kids, silly englishman!   Love ya! |
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PsychoCynic
Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1795
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The point is I don't think you should bash the whole council and say they "mislead" or what have you. |
Xgene, I think most of us, aren't bashing the CMs themselves, just the system and judging process.
| Quote: | | I'm not riled up! Trust me if I was riled up people would know. |
Yep! Totally agree with you, Steph. I don't see anyone cursing or anything and most of the points that have been brought up by both the CM and others have been civil and organized. If the forum on LVI were censored and closed up, I wouldn't consider it the same LVI that I've been a part of for over a year. One of the best things about this forum is that the moderators/CMs/etc. don't run it like tyrants and let us express our opinions in a civilized way. Or least that's what I think...
And a big thank you to Paul, Aislynn, Karolina, Cinthia, and any other CM that has addressed some of our concerns and not ignoring the LVIers and this thread. I'm starting to see where some of the CMs are now coming from and I'm starting to understand it from their P.O.V.
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SuperKC
Expert Vidder
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 3667
Location: On a Stick
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | One of the best things about this forum is that the moderators/CMs/etc. don't run it like tyrants and let us express our opinions in a civilized way. |
Word. I heart LVI. |
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marcus
Expert Vidder
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 4541
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I hate when these fights happen. Most of the time when there's some fight at LVI it's between angry Skaters and Jaters or humans and troll-bot-thingies.  But atleast with this thread, the fight seems to have a point to it. I agree with a lot of points in this whole thread, actually I think every post in here I agree with atleast some of. Here's what I think about the judging system...
As you all know, I started off at LVI at the very bottom of the pile. Like, lower than anybody else here has ever gone before. And I remember at first thinking of the CMs as types of Gods or kings or something, who knew exactly what it took to make a perfect vid.  As I got better (and it took ages for me to get good ) and watched more vids with CPs, I started realising myself what seemed to make a really good vid, and finally I got my first gold. Soon I got a few more golds, and I started to realise that I had finally become a decent vidder, and wasn't the horrible Sawyer Begins guy anymore. Atleast two members of the council always seemed to comment on my vids, but after a while I realised these comments didn't mean that much to me...before I started getting golds, I thought if any CMs commented on a vid of mine I'd be incredibly excited, but once they were commenting on my vids regularly, these comments meant as much to me as a comment from some guy who had only 10 posts. Then was when I finally figured out nobody knows what makes a perfect vid, infact nobody knows what makes a good vid. Everybody just decides whether they enjoy watching it or not. That's what the council has to do. Basically, they just...guess. I mean sure, they have some of the best vids on the site and they look for the things that they've done well at in the past, but really a lot of the time they just guess whether the vid is good or not, not knowing the answer. Cos there's nothing else they can do. Now, if you think CPs and voting etc. are unfair, you might be right. Since how do you call a guess, or an opinion, fair?
When the silver CPs came in, I think KC is right that they were supposed to be for vidders who had come close to getting golds in the past, but hadn't quite gotten them. And then suddenly it seemed to change and it looked like the silvers made it harder to get golds. But they hadn't, the bar of vidding had been raised. If you look at the first gold CPs on this site, most of them you'll think should've gotten a silver or maybe nothing at all. But the vidding skills of everybody has gotten way better since then. If everybody gets a gold, it does seem quite pointless, so that's why the council do have to keep raising the bar. Even if a "bronze CP" was added, I'm sure suddenly half the vids getting silvers these days would be getting bronzes.
There's absolutely no way that this voting system, or any voting system in the world, can be fair. Votes are based on opinions or guesses on what is good or bad. And when I've gotten silvers, I have been dissapointed. When I got a silver for my season two recap I was more dissapointed than ever, I had put so much work into it. But really, it wasn't original or new, and no matter how much work I did put into it, it wasn't anything extra special and therefore was deserving of a gold. My "Lost Bunch" vid, which was submitted around the same time, did get a gold, even though it took one day for me to make. Because it was original and nobody had ever done anything like it before...I mean, who else would be insane enough? So there's just one example of the difference between a great vid and a gold vid.
If you're still incredibly unhappy with how the council judges your videos, ignore them. You don't have to listen to them if you believe you deserved a gold. Just don't let anybody's opinions stop you from vidding. It's your choice whether you want to care about council picks. In my case they've definetly improved my vidding, although they've made me very frustrated at times. But for some they might just not help, and the only thing that can help is support from other vidders here at LVI, which you'll always be able to find.
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It's official - Aislynn is 36. Add a 0 to the end of that and you've got a full circle. |
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SuperKC
Expert Vidder
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 3667
Location: On a Stick
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Marcus, you are amazing. I love everything you've said here. It's all very true.
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the only thing that can help is support from other vidders here at LVI, which you'll always be able to find. |
Wow. *speechless* |
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PsychoCynic
Expert Vidder
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1795
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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*quotes Marcus's whole post*
How did you get to be so smart for such a young guy.
*puts out my hand*
Hi, I'm Maria/PC, and we haven't been properly introduced, but I'd like to be your friend. 
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marcus
Expert Vidder
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 4541
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
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You people are insane...what did you read that whole post for? 
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mistojen
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 1699
Location: Corning, NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Ok, wow. I go to work and I come home and see that I've missed something as huge as this! Stupid job.
Becca - it took a lot of guts for you to post this and I have to admit I was totally shocked by it. But, I am proud of you for having the guts to say what some of us feel and haven't the bravery to say.
This thread is huge and I'm not going to reply to EVERYTHING, but...
I have spoken with a CM who shall remain nameless and voiced my opinion on this matter--my opinion is the same. I feel as though with the competition of superior vidding programs, it's SO HARD to come up with a vid on WMM that can even begin to compare. HOWEVER...that is my OPINION. I have a right to have it, I have a right to voice it, but that doesn't mean it's accurate. That said, I think I've replied to xgene.
Now, Aislynn: I have been having Aislynn beta my vids for a while now, because I saw that she seemed pretty honest but in a sweet sugary kind of way and since I was still a new vidder, that's what I needed. So, I sought her out and asked for her help. She has been FANTASTIC. The more vids I do, the more critical she gets, because we have a working relationship in that respect--the more we get to know each other, the harsher she can be and the better I can take it, and without her help, my vids would never be anywhere near as good as they are. I ask for her to beta because she's honest and she tells me what needs work...she ALSO, however, tells me the things that she likes. When Ais says that it's not about her advice, but whether or not I choose to take it, she's not kidding. There have been times when she's suggested something and I either can't seem to get it to work or I'm just too lazy or stubborn to do it. It shows. Also, I'm pretty sure that Aislynn doesn't vote on my vids when she betas them, because she feels that isn't fair. I agree, and I'm glad she doesn't. She also respectcfully refused to beta my entry to the October contest because she NEEDED to vote on that. I can't speak for the other CMs because I don't know them very well but I can say that Aislynn tries to be VERY fair. While she's sugar-coated some things, when I asked her and it really counted...she let it out on the line and I appreciate it.
Marcus...I love you. I don't know how else to respond to that novel You're so smart and mature about stuff like this! You rule, Mon Frere!
Now, lastly...I just want to say that while getting a silver disappoints me...it really only disappoints me SOMETIMES. Another CM, who also shall remain nameless unless s/he would like to identify themselves, has requested that I make a vid for them because s/he thinks that I'm a really good vidder. To be honest, that surprised me to hear, because of the silvers I've been raking in, but it just goes to show that even though a vid is a silver...that does NOT make it a bad vid, guys! I know that's somewhat contradicting myself, but seriously...it was a wake up call for me and thank you, Anonymous CM, for doing that for me, even if it was without realizing it.
...and now I'm done
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Aislynn
Council Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 35782
Location: Sawyerville, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:49 am Post subject: |
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First off, thanks, gene! After I posted, I felt rather like everybody hated us!  It made me feel so much better to read your post! Thanks for the vote of confidence!
Secondly, Marcus rocks.
| marcus wrote: | | Atleast two members of the council always seemed to comment on my vids, but after a while I realised these comments didn't mean that much to me...before I started getting golds, I thought if any CMs commented on a vid of mine I'd be incredibly excited, but once they were commenting on my vids regularly, these comments meant as much to me as a comment from some guy who had only 10 posts. Then was when I finally figured out nobody knows what makes a perfect vid, infact nobody knows what makes a good vid. Everybody just decides whether they enjoy watching it or not. That's what the council has to do. Basically, they just...guess. I mean sure, they have some of the best vids on the site and they look for the things that they've done well at in the past, but really a lot of the time they just guess whether the vid is good or not, not knowing the answer. Cos there's nothing else they can do. Now, if you think CPs and voting etc. are unfair, you might be right. Since how do you call a guess, or an opinion, fair? |
Exactly! And I can guarantee that each of you replaced every Council Member right now, then the first time you didn't vote for somebody to get a Gold, then they'd be just as unhappy with you as you all are with us right now. It's human nature. Everybody wants their hard work acknowledged, everybody wants to win first place, but unless you give Gold CPs to everybody straight across the board, then everybody is NOT going to get them.
I still invite everyone of you who thinks we vote unfairly to take the "Council Member test" -- "vote" on every vid for 2 weeks and come up with an opinion on why you voted that way (we don't rubber stamp vote, we watch every vid, even the 9 minute long ones, from start to finish and try to give it a thoughtful review). Don't base your vote on whether you like/hate the ship, the song or the vidder. See if it's really as easy to do it "right" as it seems to you now. You might be surprised... |
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Aislynn
Council Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 35782
Location: Sawyerville, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| marcus wrote: | | You people are insane...what did you read that whole post for? |
Because you made about a million great points!
And as crossposting queen, I'm sorry I missed your post while I was writing my next batch of deathless prose,  Jen! *goes back to read*
ETA:
| mistojen wrote: | | I feel as though with the competition of superior vidding programs, it's SO HARD to come up with a vid on WMM that can even begin to compare. |
As somebody who struggled with WMM for a long time, believe me, I don't dispute that it's MUCH easier to vid with Vegas Movie Studio! But I've seen too many people get in there and just vid the holy heck out of WMM and come up with vids that couldn't have been more amazing if they'd been done at a professional studio. The vidding program is a tool, it's the vidder who makes a vid great. It's being willing to work hard that makes a vid great. Better tools make it easier but it's not impossible. At the risk of sounding like I'm blowing my own horn *bweeetttt!!!!! * I had two vids in the Tournament that advanced. The Vegas one had the fancy split screens, overlays, etc. The WMM kicked its butt and advanced the farthest.
| mistojen wrote: | | I can't speak for the other CMs because I don't know them very well but I can say that Aislynn tries to be VERY fair. While she's sugar-coated some things, when I asked her and it really counted...she let it out on the line and I appreciate it. |
Thank you for all of that! *squishy hugs* I really do try to stay as fair and impartial as I can. And for anybody who's ever asked me to beta a vid and they didn't get that kind of response that Jen is talking about, there's a reason for it: she asked me to go into detail. I don't automatically give that sort of detail if I'm not asked to because I know very well that whenever I show somebody a vid, I REALLY want them to say, "GASP! That's the best vid EVER!" *faints from its greatness* But that doesn't actually help me to improve the flaws in my vid that I just can't see myself. So I ask a trusted beta to tell me what parts don't make sense, what needs to be improved, etc. I rely on that "honest but not cruel" beta to catch the things that I've just missed. And every time I'm glad I have (even if I'm not happy that I missed them in the first place! ).
| mistojen wrote: | | it just goes to show that even though a vid is a silver...that does NOT make it a bad vid, guys! |
I want that on a T-shirt... That is teh point right there. We don't "give" Silver CPs anymore than we "give" the Gold ones. The Silvers have to be earned. |
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fallen_angel
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 4376
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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WOOT!!!... Marcus Rocks x 100000000 111!!!mevIe1!!!11!
I don't really have an opinion on much of this, but I just wanted to follow the crowd and say that Marcus Rocks!!
btw did I mention Marcus Rocks!!
(what does WOOT mean anyway  )
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Pirates 3 - MAY 25th 2007!!! |
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SuperKC
Expert Vidder
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 3667
Location: On a Stick
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| LOL Vicky! I heart you. |
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fallen_angel
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 4376
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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hehe, it's the silly season you know
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Pirates 3 - MAY 25th 2007!!! |
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xgene
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 176
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| mistojen wrote: |
I feel as though with the competition of superior vidding programs, it's SO HARD to come up with a vid on WMM that can even begin to compare. HOWEVER...that is my OPINION. I have a right to have it, I have a right to voice it, but that doesn't mean it's accurate. That said, I think I've replied to xgene. |
First, you'll have to refresh my memory in what you are "responding" to I was just flaming before so I don't understand what you response to me was. By the way I said this in my last post whether you read it or not:
| Quote: | | Am I saying it's wrong to make your voice heard or even defend others, no. Absolutely not, but I agree that a matter like this should have been a PM. |
Sooo, yeah... whether your response to me was in anger I don't know, but I sense yes as you seemed quite blunt at the end,, though I'm confused as to what you have said as I fully do support letting your voice be heard, just as it doesn't implicate others on their talents or merrit, in this case vidding, as I felt my abilities were being shotdown indirectly though I presume unintentionally. Plus, having basically taking a jab towards the CMs, or anyone's, integrity without just cause aside from one example I don't think is fair. That of course is MY OPINION.
I agree with you on WMM. I too have to suffer it and fear my vids being not up to "par" with others, but that is where I believe the council has leveled the field and have been fair in their respective choices and I thereby support and standby their decisions, and me having or not having CP's would not change my mind as I've seen others who use WMM receive a CP.
I understand people should voice their opinion peeps!! Good granny, I'm not some fascist dictator here Why don't you believe me  ....
I'm just trying to see why my fellow vidding peeps are now rallying up all this "unfair" business when they are getting a silver instead of a gold. If anything the CMs are being more lax by introducing the silver and are saying "Hey, you know this is a good vid but it may have so and so issues but it still deserves recognition" thus a Silver CP.
The whole Cms giving nice comments, same thing as a Silver CP, giving recognition to a good vid. Is there a "limit" to how much praise you can give a vid before you border "misleading" people into thinking they would get a gold CP? Come on Praise is praise, be grateful you got it but don't expect anything from it.
I could understand this arguement without the silver CP existing but with it? Before it was "hit or miss" but now it's like the silver is "Second Place" and no one wants second when they come so close to first.
OT (sort of): For once I won't go against the grain and agree that Marcus rocks, though I don't know why j/k. Seriously though, you rock
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mistojen
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 1699
Location: Corning, NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| xgene wrote: | | mistojen wrote: |
I feel as though with the competition of superior vidding programs, it's SO HARD to come up with a vid on WMM that can even begin to compare. HOWEVER...that is my OPINION. I have a right to have it, I have a right to voice it, but that doesn't mean it's accurate. That said, I think I've replied to xgene. |
First, you'll have to refresh my memory in what you are "responding" to I was just flaming before so I don't understand what you response to me was. By the way I said this in my last post whether you read it or not:
| Quote: | | Am I saying it's wrong to make your voice heard or even defend others, no. Absolutely not, but I agree that a matter like this should have been a PM. |
Sooo, yeah... whether your response to me was in anger I don't know, but I sense yes as you seemed quite blunt at the end,, though I'm confused as to what you have said as I fully do support letting your voice be heard, just as it doesn't implicate others on their talents or merrit, in this case vidding, as I felt my abilities were being shotdown indirectly though I presume unintentionally. Plus, having basically taking a jab towards the CMs, or anyone's, integrity without just cause aside from one example I don't think is fair. That of course is MY OPINION.
I agree with you on WMM. I too have to suffer it and fear my vids being not up to "par" with others, but that is where I believe the council has leveled the field and have been fair in their respective choices and I thereby support and standby their decisions, and me having or not having CP's would not change my mind as I've seen others who use WMM receive a CP.
I understand people should voice their opinion peeps!! Good granny, I'm not some fascist dictator here Why don't you believe me .... |
I wasn't trying to flame at you, at all, actually. I'm not terribly loquatoius (which I'm sure I've misspelled ) after a long day at work. That's why I tried to add the "but that doesn't mean it's accurate" at the end. Guess that didn't soften what I said the way I'd meant it to, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Also, no I hadn't seen that last thing you wrote (the thing you quoted yourself on)
The part I was referring to was
| xgene wrote: | | First off, not to sound like an a**hole, but I am totally against the creation of this thread. I don't believe in bashing the authority figures when we knew well that we were putting our trust in their decisions everytime we submit a vid here, you don't like it, don't submit. |
I meant that I agree with Becca, but that's my OPINION and it might not be right, but it's mine and there you have it. Again, apologies for the misunderstanding--I didn't mean for it to look like I was flaming at you, because I promise you, I wasn't. That was the main piece I meant to reply to and I probably should have quoted you. The other thing was where you said
| Quote: | | The point is I don't think you should bash the whole council and say they "mislead" or what have you. |
...I don't think Becca was trying to bash on the council itself. (Again, my opinion, be it right or wrong, thus the "but that doesn't make it accurate". The blunt end was just because I wanted to move onto the next person and if I'm not writing fanfic, I'm kinda crap at segueways or endings to paragraphs *facepalm*
| Quote: | I could understand this arguement without the silver CP existing but with it? Before it was "hit or miss" but now it's like the silver is "Second Place" and no one wants second when they come so close to first.
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...for some of us, myself included, sometimes being second is like being First Last. It's less frustrating to be FAR from getting a Gold than it is to be SO CLOSE and still not get it, you know what I mean?
ETA: | Quote: | | Plus, having basically taking a jab towards the CMs, or anyone's, integrity without just cause aside from one example I don't think is fair. That of course is MY OPINION. |
Not to further beat a dead horse, but there was some similar controversy (not NEARLY as much as this, however) between the CMs and someone about my Final Destination: LOST vid. Becca knew about that, too, so I don't think she was basing her opinion on this singular video; I think Scorned was just an example she was using. She also did mention that there are a few she thought deserved Golds and ended up with Silvers, I think, although I could be wrong...I'm just too lazy to go back and look since that would mean doing a lot of copy & paste
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