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Hobbes
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC
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 Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: |
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2 kinds of fans:
1 - casual fan - tunes in for some fun viewing, focusses on the good parts, if they understand what's happening.
2 - hardcore fan - invests way too much time and emotion into this show, so once things seem to go bad, it's a lot easier to turn to despair. Like a house of cards, one little puff of air and it falls to pieces, and has to be rebuilt again. That doesn't mean it won't... a lot...
Unfortunately, when that house of cards comes down from one person, it tends to spread  and even when the things everyone is complaining about are tiny and really insignificant in proportion to how much damage they cause, it still effects everyone.
That said... KC (& co.), I think you are being way too harsh on harpreetd. Sure, he/she has no right to tell you how to act, but that wasn't the intention. Harpreetd was just frustrated because his/her house of cards just came tumbling down by our virtual whirlwind in here . It's hard to stay an optomist when everyone's crying appocalypse, even if you agree with everything they're saying.. And in an environment like this, where one little complaint from one fan can be spread to the others so easilly, it can make this hard. That doesn't mean anyone has to leave. All it means is mutual respect. I know you were just defending yourself, but harpreetd just got virtually gang-beat right there and nobody deserves that.
Despit it all, I think these discussions have been getting increasingly better with every episode lol. It's like I'm looking forward to these more than the ep lol  . But you know, I don't want to go trashing Lost either, especially when we're all doing it, and call it discussion or talk or whatever you want, but we are trashing it right now. We're looking for perfection, and getting discouraged when we don't find it. That doesn't make us any less fans (in fact that probably makes us more fans for caring so much...) but it certainly doesn't make us happy fans
| Quote: | I don't really have anything else to add to what you guys have said, because I completely and totally agree with almost everything that has been stated. I still love the show, and it will forever intrigue me immensely. I don't hate the writers; I actually feel a little sad for them. They weren't expecting the show to gain such a huge following, and many expectations were made by the fans and critics, and they tried so hard to live up to them, which was probably their first mistake - because as Warren said, they're now basically selling the plot for ratings' sake.
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I'm totally with you on that. I feel sorry for those guys. And I don't think they're idiots who don't know what should be happening, it just doesn't always turn out I think they're afraid to drop flashbacks, because once they have them gone they have nothing to hide behind to keep them from being pressured to make the entire episode according to what the fans dictate they should be. And since what we want is fast story and character development, and they can't give that or else Lost would be over too quickly for the big wigs to let them, they're absolutely screwed  .
Character integration:
Juliet - good example
Paulo and Nikki - bad example
nuff said 
| Quote: | | [Charlie]'s really not that bad of a character, no one is (EXCEPT PAULO AND NIKKI...*ahem*for now anyways). |
My thoughts exactly even though I love to pick on Charlie, I definitely don't loathe him. In fact, I've been liking him increasingly more for a long time.
I think part of the reason we get so bummed out each ep this season is because how it just dumped everything that happened last season down the drain, like because we didn't like it that much it must go go go! Eko, the hatch, Locke's character dev, everything, forgotten and ignored by this point. We don't even seem to really care what Eko's death tells us, or how it might advance the plot (I mean, the freaking monster was supposedly his brother! What could that mean?  ) because we're too pissed that they thre a character in the garbage while they use the rest of the chars as fertilizer for the Paulo/Nikki "we're hawt!" coupling...
But when you take this season, just take it out of everything else, isolate it all from the other two, mix them up like cards on a blackjack table, and just look at them. I find it hard to say that this season isn't awesome. Even if I haven't loved every ep, there hasn't been a single one that I've felt like it was just put in as filler or something. They've felt like strong, plot-moving eps that really tried their best to give us what we want. Forget continuity issues and just look at each piece for what it is.... I think Lost is looking up.
Maybe we should make a habit of watching each ep twice... once to just watch, and sigh our sighs of relief or regret, as we find out what happens, and once to just sit back and watch the ep for what it is, ignoring the dreads we felt the first run through. I've found I don't even watch to enjoy Lost anymore, but more to keep up with it, like a frustrating game you just can't quite until you beat. But when you take a step back and sit back to enjoy each "level" it makes it a lot better...
I watched this ep again, and I'm happy with it. I'm feeling better about Lost again.
There's one thing we definitely can agree on here though... Lost is one of the few shows out there that can engage you this much - whether for good or bad. As soon as I saw the show for the first time, I came straight to the 'net to find a place to talk about it. No other show has ever done that, or probably ever will. There are a lot of things good about this show. I hope we don't lose sight of them. |
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Hobbes
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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P.S. Ooooh, snowman cookies!   |
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Rocksiren
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2576
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hear hear!
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SuperKC
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 3667
Location: On a Stick
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hobbes I get what you're saying, but I'm not the one who came in here telling other people how to feel. I can't control if the other people reading this thread feel exactly the same way I do in my responses to harp. That's not my problem, nor was it my intention. But if someone's gonna come in here and tell me how to react to a show that I've been watching since day one, I'm going to tell them where to stick it. Plain and simple. I'm sorry if that seems "harsh" but so is telling us that what we feel invalidates us as fans, more or less.
I have NO PROBLEM with harp having an opinion on the show, even if it might be very different from mine. We could even debate about our differences of opinion about the show itself. But that's not what they did. Somehow suggesting that we didn't have a right to say what we were saying. That, in my opinion is NOT OKAY.
I'm sorry if it seemed like we were ganging up on harp. I don't think anyone here meant for it to seem like that. But people get sensitive when someone challanges their right to feel a certain way or express those feelings. We're only human.
I feel sorry for the writers too. Yeah. All the one's they fired. (Amicably parted with?)
Re: Charlie. I dislike him because he has this HUGE sense on entitlement when it comes to Claire (and other things.) And he's a whiny little bitch. And because he refuses to take responsibility for his own actions. And because he kidnapped SUN. And no one CARES! His only redeeming quality is that he sometimes says humourous things. Which isn't enough. And the relationship between him and Claire is so retardedly bad that I can't even wrap my brain around it. It COULD have been good, if it had been handled properly. But that would just be asking too much.
I have a similar problem with Charlie as I have with Sawyer. The Sun kidnapping really works on my nerves. Neither of them have ever had to face consequences for their actions regarding that and NUMEROUS other shitty stuff they've done. How can I respect that? A character who does wrong and faces consequences, admits wrongdoing, whatever, even if they DON'T learn their lesson, that's OKAY. At least they didn't get off scott free. Which is exactly what happens every time one of these two does something asshattish. Which is why I dislike these characters SO much. Just be a man. Own up. FEEL BAD even. God. |
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harpreetd
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for that, Hobbes.
And I am sorry SuperKC if it seemed like I was forcing you to feel one way. I was just disappointed, I thought many would have really liked this episode as much as I did.
Hmm.. maybe I am a little too happy for this show. 
I apoligize to anyone that may have been offended. I am sorry and hope to continue with the discussion of the show. |
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harpreetd
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I also agree that the Monster thing having the ability to become people's pasts is truly the awesomeness! However, It is hard for me to understand the monster's actions now. Are these monsters good guys or bad guys? I think the line between good and bad is confusing me on this Island!
I am also starting to hate Charlie now... He used to be a great character but now he's terrible... he doesn't even have a sense of "feel" to him. (he's just random). However, I am starting to see this with Kate too.
The only person Eko was ever very close to was his brother.. he always kept that to himself and the reason he was still a good person, even if he committed sins... was because of his brother. And I was happy to see him go join his brother at last. They deserved to be together, even if they were separated. 
I love what is going on in the Hydra hatch.. this struggle for the truth and trust is interesting. I support Jack's actions and I believe he will make the right choice to side with the right person. Who is Benry! Go ben! I love that guy... |
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cylune
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Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 2715
Location: Québec, Canada (icon by imaginary lives)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't understand why so many people just LOATHE Charlie. Yes, he's made mistakes but hello? Have we looked around? Locke was wrong about the button and could've killed everybody. If Jack had some big plan to keep "the gang" safe while letting Michael lead them into a trap, I haven't seen it working yet. Sawyer conned the living daylights out of everybody AND squished a dang tree frog. Each of the characters took flack but nothing near like what Charlie took over that thing with Aaron. I guess how I saw it was that he wasn't trying to hurt him at all; he was trying to save him, even if he was going all about it wrong. And I would've dearly loved to have seen what happened with him and Claire to get them back to this "happy little family" state they've somehow popped into. What? They couldn't spare two minutes for Claire to say, "Charlie, you screwed up but I know you meant well and I'm going to give you another chance." |
I heart you Aislynn. I know you don't like Charlie much and I uderstand that - I find him annoying too sometimes - but the fact that you respect the people who do and that you're able to see that Charlie might not be such an horrible person made my day. I too wish they could have spare two minutes for some C/C dialogue.
Thanks for the adorable cookies.
| Quote: | | I am also starting to hate Charlie now... He used to be a great character but now he's terrible... he doesn't even have a sense of "feel" to him. (he's just random). |
Charlie was one if not the most well written character of season 1. Then he got minimal screen-time in season 2 and the trend seemed to continue in season 3. It's hard to effectively develop a character when they're barely on screen. The writters don't seem interested in Charlie's (or Claire's) characters anymore. Maybe that explains that he doen't have a sense of "feel" anymore. And as much of a Charlie fan I am, I tend to agree. Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been better for both of them to be killed by that lightning. Then I could 'casually' enjoy the show without being frustrated all the time by the lack of attention to my favorite ship.
There was some interesting discussion on the 'lage recently about the plot driving the character and not the other way around as it should be. You need to get from point A to point B and in order to do that you need the character to act out of character. Over-caring Charlie not going on the Pearl trek to find Eko? He's the character that is the most attached to Eko...doesn't make sense , especially since he complained last season that he was kept "Out of the loop". Why didn't the Others just ask Jack nicely about operating Ben? Instead they kidnapped and tortured them Doesn't make sense to me.
Locke forgetting he saw Jack in the hatch in one of the monitor? wtf?? Sayid not thinking about watching what was on the monitors? still wtf? Paolo and Nikki asking who the others are and what the monster is? Well, weren't you there two months ago when the plane crashed and heard noises in the jungle? Weren't you there when you all moved to the caves after the French lady told everyone the Others were coming?
And Eko... I loved Eko. I was certain that his death would affect me. But not really... he said that he wasn't sorry about the killings he's done. Oh well, maybe you deserve to die then.
They say that the second half will be very different than the mini-season. I hope so because right now the show is focused on the plot... and I'd rather see a show that have the characters has the main focus.
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xXAngelicEvilXx
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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I LOVE YOU ALL!
*LVI hug*
Anywho, Harp, I loved the episode too, and as far as what Hobbes said, I would classify myself as the Casual viewer. I watch every week, try to keep an open mind about the storylines, and don't raise my expectations, because this is a show that will have twists and turns, therefore, if I don't raise my expectations of the show, I won't end up disappointed. I just like the show and how it's different from most that are on TV today. It's still as addicting as it was when I first saw it. Once again though, that's just me. Not everyone will react the way I do, or have the same opinion that I do, but you're all entitled to yours. It's sad that some feel a disconnection with the show, but that's just the way it works sometimes.
*Takes a snowman cookie....and another for the road.* |
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harpreetd
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that ooangeliceviloo. You don't know how happy I am to hear you say that.
Gives a *LVI hug* back. |
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marcus
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 4541
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Oh man...I think it's actually official now...I'm now the biggest fan of the show.
Why can't you people just enjoy the show and point out the good things? This ep was fantastic, but I knew as soon as I finished watching it everybody would be all "oh my god they killed off Eko! I hate them! And enough with the damn visions! Oh, and what a crappy way to kill off a character!". Know why I knew this? Because most of you, not all of you, but most of you are now just looking for things to complain about.
Eko's death was awesome. He was one of my favourite characters, but that didn't mean I couldn't applaud the writers for how they killed him. That end part where he said he hadn't made any sins, and was proud of himself for killing people to survive, was a great moment. And then when it turned out it wasn't his brother, and was probably the monster in disguise...how can you people not like that? That's a HUGE deal, some time it could start using the bodies of people who are still alive.
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Last edited by marcus on Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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marcus
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Btw I'd just like to point out just because I see the best things in each ep, doesn't make me a "casual viewer". I'm a complete hardcore fan, I just have a much more casual mind.
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It's official - Aislynn is 36. Add a 0 to the end of that and you've got a full circle.
Last edited by marcus on Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rocksiren
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2576
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| marcus wrote: | Because most of you, not all of you, but most of you are now just looking for things to complain about. I mean, Ruth, you write a list of things you hate after every episode, for God's sake!
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EXCUSE ME??? Uh, I dont even want to go here, because I have a temper. Most of what I write are JOKES/and or questions, if you even read them.
Okay Ill shut my mouth (censorship is ILLEGAL in MY country!) and here you go everybody:
OMG!!! WHAT A TOTALLY GREAT EPISODE! EVERYTHING MADE ABSOLUTE PERFECT SENSE!!!! EVERYONE WAS AWESOME, TOTALLY IN CHARACTER AND THERE WAS NO WASTED TIME! I AM ABSOLUTE SMILES! I WILL BE SHUDDERING IN ANTICIPATION FOR A WHOLE WEEK TO FEEL THIS GOOD AGAIN! THUMBS FREAKIN' UP!
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Last edited by Rocksiren on Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:09 am; edited 2 times in total |
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marcus
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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You do though!
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Rocksiren
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Again, see above post. Anyone want to jump in here? not only because is it clearly a personal attack, but I thought this matter was settled. Sorry if I offended anyone with my list thats mainly questions and/or humorous observations.
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marcus
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Crap, sorry, I wasn't meaning that as a personal attack. Seriously, I meant that as an example! I'll edit it out! I'm really sorry!
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