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The *OFFICIAL* Skate vs Jate Debate!
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My choice for the Kate/Sawyer/Jack love triangle IS:
Sawyer & Kate (SKATE)
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
Jack and Kate (Jate)
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
I have not decided! CONVINCE ME!
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 15

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Jo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soapbubbles511 wrote:
all I saw in S5 was Kate was still mad at Jack for going all druggie and now its Sawyer's turn again... off island she couldn't bounce back to Saywer for a couple years... and by the finale she was totally all about Jack again...


Kate's episode made it pretty obvious Kate loves him. She took Aaron to fill the void left by him. It made episodes like SNBH (where she still hadn't admitted to herself why she was clinging to Aaron or why she was keeping the promise) make a lot more sense, as well as her talk with Locke about love. I don't think finale-Kate was all about Jack, I think she was all about Aaron (and Claire).

Quote:
and I never saw anything between Skate except sex...


Just because they have fantastic sexual chemistry doesn't mean that's all there is. I rewatched the season 3 mini-arc recently, and the bond those two have is amazing, the sheer agony when they think they're going to lose each other, the way they propped each other up, the pain when Kate tried to get Jack to do the surgery... when Jack started mocking her, saying believed what the Others had told her, and she went "I have to", I got shivers. And my heart is made of stone, so it's actually supposed to be medically impossible for me to get shivers.

But anyway, they went two seasons without even getting close to having sex. The fire scene in Outlaws, the confession in Confidence Man, the nursing in Collision, the horse scene (woo, that sounds dirty) in WKD, The scene in And found, when Kate's frantically going through the mail to see if Sawyer left a note for her, the part in Three Minutes (?) where Sawyer comforts her after they lose Libby, The chopper scene... it all adds up to so much more than "sex", so I really don't understand why some people dismiss their relationship as merely physical just because those two actors burn up the screen when they're together.

Quote:
as for Suliet.. first I think Juliet is just generally a better character than Kate... and I believed she actually loved Sawyer, unlike Kate...


I believe Juliet loved Sawyer too, but that doesn't make up for the ridiculous amount of chemistry and build-up. There's nothing to hold on to in that relationship except for the fact that those two characters were excellent in their own right. But they would still have been excellent even if they'd spent the entire season playing cards and drinking beer. Actually, I think I would have preferred that.

Quote:
and Suliet had an actual relationship, a partnership and they were uber adorable...


How do you now that though? We never ever saw their relationship develop, we don't know what they were like together except for a few snatches in these last few eps, when all I saw was Juliet being an insecure housewife and Sawyer being a cowardly arse with his head stuck in the sand. We saw them say ILY, but we don't know why.

Quote:
I liked having someone who actually genuinely wanted Sawyer and had his back (and not just until she got bored and decided she wanted Jack again)


Well, I'd like that too, but I want it to be Kate, not a character who had her entire epic storyline scrapped so she could play house with Sawyer for a few eps. *Is bitter*

Quote:
and unless people just want more sex I don't understand Skate's relationship at all...


I'd be perfectly fine if Sawyer and Kate never had sex again, as long as we get more of their epicness.

On the other hand, though, sex isn't evil. Desire is what separates a romantic relationship from a platonic one, which I guess is why I could never buy Suliet. I don't want Sawyer to spend the rest of his life with someone who's basically his mum.
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soapbubbles511
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't see Skate as epic (Jate either)... I see Kate trying to have her cake and eat it too... be with one, but keep the other for fallback... Jack's on drugs, time to go think about Sawyer again... Sawyer's pissing her off, let's go run to Jack... Kate's episode this season pretty much just made me especially considering she had been engaged to Jack

S3 just further convinced me that Kate is fickle and doesn't really love either of them... Skate had some nice scenes in the cages but it certainly didn't convince me of any great bond between them because they were quite literally stuck together...and not wanting someone to be killed does not equal love... especially since when Skate did escape she spent the entire journey back making bitchface at Sawyer for leaving Jack... and then went back to find Jack... and then got her panties all in a twist over Jack spending time with Juliet.... so a bond that only seemed to last as long as they were locked in cages together doesn't convince me of a whole lot

and when I say nothing but sex I don't mean that they're relationship was just sexual but more that's the only thing that sets them apart... that Skate and Jate are pretty interchangable to me except Skate had hot sex... that other than lust Kate's feelings for Sawyer aren't any different/deeper than they are for Jack... she "loves" one until something happens and then she's back to "loving" the other... and the "love" she feels for Jack isn't any different than her "love" for Sawyer

no matter how many times I watch Skate/Jate scenes I'm just left going, that's it?! that's all people are fighting about... that was barely worth paying attention to much less fighting over, much less epic... I've seen both Jate and Skate described as epic and that's just about the last word I'd use to describe either of them... I don't see it... I have yet to see Kate believably love anyone... I didn't expect to love Suliet, but in a few scenes I actually believed that they had spent three years together and loved and supported each other... the way they were together I believed it... I don't believe Kate... she's gone back and forth too many times... and she's with whichever one fits her mood of the moment but the next moment it could just as easily be the other one
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Jo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soapbubbles511 wrote:
and not wanting someone to be killed does not equal love...


But the look on her face during that scene sure did. I've never bought that she's in love with Jack. I think her thing for him is all about her issues, her need to be "good" in a way her mum and stepfather weren't. Her issues annoy the hell out of me, too, but only because the other part, her storyline with Sawyer (and now Aaron) has such a big pull.

With Suliet though, I don't buy it. We're supposed to think they have this great love, when in fact there were no other choices available to them, and they'd both lost what they wanted most in the world (Kate and Rachel). They were in the middle of these huge seperate storylines, and one of those (Rachel!) was dismissed completely, to the utter frustration of those of us who were into it.

If season 6 ends with Kate still making Kateface over the triangle, I'll dismiss Skate as a big old waste of time. But with Suliet, they could have ten babies and destroy Jacob with the glorious power of their undying love, and I would still remain utterly unmoved, no matter how shiny it all looks on the inside. There's no meat to that story.
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soapbubbles511
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jo wrote:
soapbubbles511 wrote:
and not wanting someone to be killed does not equal love...


But the look on her face during that scene sure did. I've never bought that she's in love with Jack. I think her thing for him is all about her issues, her need to be "good" in a way her mum and stepfather weren't. Her issues annoy the hell out of me, too, but only because the other part, her storyline with Sawyer (and now Aaron) has such a big pull.

With Suliet though, I don't buy it. We're supposed to think they have this great love, when in fact there were no other choices available to them, and they'd both lost what they wanted most in the world (Kate and Rachel).

If season 6 ends with Kate still making Kateface over the triangle, I'll dismiss Skate as a big old waste of time. But with Suliet, they could have ten babies and destroy Jacob with the glorious power of their undying love, and I would still remain utterly unmoved, no matter how shiny it all looks on the inside. There's no meat to that story.

eh... the look on her face didn't convince me of anything... Jack and Sawyer have let her have both of them... never forced her to choose so she didn't... she just likes having two men wanting her and being able to go back and forth as she chooses... at this point I don't think there's anything Kate could do that would convince me that she actually loves either of them... 5 seasons of Kateface and back and forth has been more than enough to convince me that she doesn't actually love either of them... too much flip flopping, flip flopping much to fast for me to believe either actually genuinely mattered... she's convinced me of nothing except she wants to have her cake and eat it too...

and all the on island couples are a result of limited options... and yes Suliet are together because they got left behind and had been hurt... but I find them making a life together, finding love and some stability infinitely more rootable than Sawyer letting Kate run off to Jack every five minutes and then just taking her back (and vice versa for Jate).... I'm not claiming Suliet are the most epic love story ever... but I find them rootable, which I can't do for anything that centers around Kate being fickle
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, for those very same reasons, I find Suliet to be an utter waste of time. They reduced Juliet to a roadblock in the triangle (quadrangle), when she used to be the best character on the show. Suliet getting five minutes of snuggling is a hell of a poor substitute for the real Juliet. I can understand if someone's a Sawyer fan first, they'd like seeing someone giving Sawyer the attention he deserves for a couple of episodes, but as a Juliet fan, I can't stand that pairing. I'd rather watch Jate yelling at each other (hey, at least you can make hilarious "hit the road, Jack!" vids with those scenes), than Suliet smirking blandly at each other while everyone else has a real storyline.

Also, haha, rootable. I just watched Outrageous Fortune, so I find your choice of that word particularly hilarious today.
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FaradayLinus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After season 5 it is so clear Kate loves Jack, and Sawyer loves Juliet. each of those ships are endgame.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaradayLinus wrote:
After season 5 it is so clear Kate loves Jack, and Sawyer loves Juliet. each of those ships are endgame.


Jate are pretty rocky and Juliet is presumably dead so I wouldn't say Skate is dead yet or that Jate is endgame. There's a fair way to go for Jack and Kate to be together again just the same for Sawyer and Kate. I wouldn't be surprised if Jack was the one who dies next season. One thing for sure we are not gonna get a dream Jate or Skate wedding at the end of the season there's gonna be too much going on.
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Debbie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaradayLinus wrote:
After season 5 it is so clear Kate loves Jack, and Sawyer loves Juliet. each of those ships are endgame.


Jack and Sawyer BOTH love Kate. They made that as obvious as possible without making Sawyer look like a total asshole. Lets all remember this triangle has always been about Kates choice, no one elses.

I think alot of fans are under the illusion that Lost is going to end with everyone coupling up.

IMO there will only be one couple left standing.

For example...lets say Jack/Kate end up together..doesn't actualy mean Suliet are going to.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debbie wrote:
FaradayLinus wrote:
After season 5 it is so clear Kate loves Jack, and Sawyer loves Juliet. each of those ships are endgame.


Jack and Kate BOTH love Kate.


I think you meant Jack and Sawyer BOTH love Kate - my dear! lolol

*Dances out of thread because these debates make me cry*
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Debbie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klost004 wrote:
Debbie wrote:
FaradayLinus wrote:
After season 5 it is so clear Kate loves Jack, and Sawyer loves Juliet. each of those ships are endgame.


Jack and Kate BOTH love Kate.


I think you meant Jack and Sawyer BOTH love Kate - my dear! lolol

*Dances out of thread because these debates make me cry*


lmao! oh gosh...im just kate in the brain, me
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debbie wrote:
FaradayLinus wrote:
After season 5 it is so clear Kate loves Jack, and Sawyer loves Juliet. each of those ships are endgame.


Jack and Sawyer BOTH love Kate. They made that as obvious as possible without making Sawyer look like a total asshole. Lets all remember this triangle has always been about Kates choice, no one elses.

I think alot of fans are under the illusion that Lost is going to end with everyone coupling up.

IMO there will only be one couple left standing.

For example...lets say Jack/Kate end up together..doesn't actualy mean Suliet are going to.


no i didnt mean wed get some bubbly ending with the ships. its the last season with a "war" coming lol so of course i expect some deaths. and jack and kate might end up dying together being adam and eve and suliet might live. i do think one couple will die but at the least, together, or with each other in mind if that makes sense, still making the endgame stuff possible for each. im not expecting it to end with jack and kate with a beach house on the island with kids, right next door to sawyer and juliets place.

and yea sawyer definitely loved kate. im just saying by watching season 5, it was like every action kate did on the end was with jack in mind. like when bernard said "so we die, we just care about being together" kate was in her thoughts, kind of obviouslly thinking of jack, and this is why she ended up just going with his whole plan of the bomb drop.

Polarbear wrote:


Jate are pretty rocky and Juliet is presumably dead so I wouldn't say Skate is dead yet or that Jate is endgame. There's a fair way to go for Jack and Kate to be together again just the same for Sawyer and Kate. I wouldn't be surprised if Jack was the one who dies next season. One thing for sure we are not gonna get a dream Jate or Skate wedding at the end of the season there's gonna be too much going on.


i dont think juliet is dead obviously but if she were, i think it would make it harder for skate to happen than if she was alive. cause if shes dead, itd be very hard for the writers to throw a greiving guy with his ex suddenly without making sawyer just look like a complete arsehole. and yea, i do not expect these dream couples. im sure somewill die but theyll die together, like bernard foreshadowed with his little quote. itll probably be jack and kate as adam and eve i think.
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Debbie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, IMO there will only be one endgame. Whether they die or not.

The thing with shipper debates is people see what they want to see etc and are neve going to agree.

so i say JAWER= ENDGAME
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe that in all of my LOST watching time and time here on LVI I have never once entered this thread and voiced an opinion (well, written my opinion...).

So here it goes, I FRIGGEN LOVE ME SOME SKATE!!!

Just in case that wasn't completely obvious already by my banner, avi, and vidding choices... I just love them. Why?

Because... their like gravity... all it needs is a little push!!! Just like the Joker says... except he was talking about madness, not love and he was crazy and I'm not! Anyway, I really believe that there is just a huge amount of love between them. Not that I don't think there is a huge amount of love between her and Jack, I do (mostly coming from his side though, more on that later). But I feel that Sawyer deserves her more.

Why you ask? Why should this con artist a-hole get the girl? Because he's not that man anymore. He has evolved so much over the course of this program that I'm astounded that the focus hasn't shifted more toward him being the main character instead of Jack. I don't pretend to believe that all of his growth is due to Kate. There were a lot of things that factored in to his character change. However, I do believe that she taught him what true, healthy love is. I believe that he loved Cassidy, so he had experienced love before. But it wasn't enough love, or a healthy love, because he ended up screwing her over. Obviously something wasn't right there. But with Kate it was different. He opened up with her more than any other person in his life (that we know of). Even when he lied to her, the truth eventually came out and he was straight forward with her. As further evidence that he grew because of her, I think that his love for her grew to a point that he had never known before, a point in which he put the needs of another person ahead of his own. In his life, he'd always been number 1, most important, it's every man for himself. But with her things changed. He started making decisions based on her needs/feelings.

So, back to how I think the love between Jack and Kate comes more from him than her... I feel that she does love him. However, I don't think it's the right kind of love, it's not healthy. He doesn't trust her (and there is some validity to that, she is a criminal) and she wants him to and expects him to and it doesn't work. They don't function well because he's too busy being self righteous to notice her needs. I think that he really loves her and wants her to be his, but I don't think he can handle her for who she really is. I think he is in love with the woman he thinks she ought to be. I think she loves the idea of being that woman for him, but she just can't bring herself to do it.

Did any of that make sense? I just love Sawyer and Kate and I love them together and I hope that they at least get some closure by the end of this, whether they end up in a permanent relationship or not.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FrecklesPhoenix wrote:
I can't believe that in all of my LOST watching time and time here on LVI I have never once entered this thread and voiced an opinion (well, written my opinion...).

So here it goes, I FRIGGEN LOVE ME SOME SKATE!!!

Just in case that wasn't completely obvious already by my banner, avi, and vidding choices... I just love them. Why?

Because... their like gravity... all it needs is a little push!!! Just like the Joker says... except he was talking about madness, not love and he was crazy and I'm not! Anyway, I really believe that there is just a huge amount of love between them. Not that I don't think there is a huge amount of love between her and Jack, I do (mostly coming from his side though, more on that later). But I feel that Sawyer deserves her more.

Why you ask? Why should this con artist a-hole get the girl? Because he's not that man anymore. He has evolved so much over the course of this program that I'm astounded that the focus hasn't shifted more toward him being the main character instead of Jack. I don't pretend to believe that all of his growth is due to Kate. There were a lot of things that factored in to his character change. However, I do believe that she taught him what true, healthy love is. I believe that he loved Cassidy, so he had experienced love before. But it wasn't enough love, or a healthy love, because he ended up screwing her over. Obviously something wasn't right there. But with Kate it was different. He opened up with her more than any other person in his life (that we know of). Even when he lied to her, the truth eventually came out and he was straight forward with her. As further evidence that he grew because of her, I think that his love for her grew to a point that he had never known before, a point in which he put the needs of another person ahead of his own. In his life, he'd always been number 1, most important, it's every man for himself. But with her things changed. He started making decisions based on her needs/feelings.

So, back to how I think the love between Jack and Kate comes more from him than her... I feel that she does love him. However, I don't think it's the right kind of love, it's not healthy. He doesn't trust her (and there is some validity to that, she is a criminal) and she wants him to and expects him to and it doesn't work. They don't function well because he's too busy being self righteous to notice her needs. I think that he really loves her and wants her to be his, but I don't think he can handle her for who she really is. I think he is in love with the woman he thinks she ought to be. I think she loves the idea of being that woman for him, but she just can't bring herself to do it.

Did any of that make sense? I just love Sawyer and Kate and I love them together and I hope that they at least get some closure by the end of this, whether they end up in a permanent relationship or not.


I just have to say that I LOVE everything about this post This is exactly how I feel about the SK/JK drama.
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Aislynn
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw, that was just beautiful, Nicole! *applause* ♥♥♥!!!
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