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Clip Theft
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Hobbes
Council Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:59 am    Post subject: Clip Theft Reply with quote

As some of you may know, we recently had an incident involving clip theft. Now I know it may not seem like a big deal, taking a clip here and there, hell, I never even thought it was a problem before today. It's probably never really intentional to directly plagiarize another person's work. Just a bit of ignorance to the rules, and we will treat it that way, on the first offense, but if it happens a second time with a person who knows better, then a ban from this site will ensue. It's that serious.
Since it's probably mainly people new to vidding that may make this mistake, just read up here on why NOT to do it:
- It looks bad. Especially if you cut the clip halfway through a fade or something.
- It means you're stealing another person's work. Especially if you use parts where it actually takes TALENT to clip properly. That talent is not yours, it's the vidder's. Sometimes some videos can take upwards of WEEKS to finish, so it's just plain disrespect for a good video
- It's easy for people to find you out. The incident we had may have slipped through the cracks of the JUDGES, due to some 25 videos between that video and the victim video being submitted, but the viewers saw it. And they always will. The easiest parts to see are when some original effect is put in that is taken.
- The viddeo may have put their calling card on the piece, and can find out exactly which scenes you used. And they have every right to come and yell at you for it
-the quality of the clips are horrible, and usually mean an ugly video. It's a waste of all that hard work.
-it ruins what we come here to make, and soon every vid turns into one big compiliation of everyone else's work.
-we will ban you from the site if you keep doing it!

So what reason WOULD someone steal it? To use as material, if they just didn't know any better, or to steal great effects, if they were to be diabolical. But anyway, if it's to get material, then there are many many other places to get these clips. Though I must point you to this topic: http://lostvideo.net/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1196 and urge you to go to fellow vidders via PM or email for help, I assure you there's always a way to get the clips, and sometimes whole episodes.
Before I close, I would also like to point out one common misconception right here about what is legal and what is not. As far as music videos are concerned, there is actually no "real" illegal part about using tv-show footage to make a music video. Up to 4 minutes of any show may be used by the public at any given time, so most music videos fall under that category... though I wouldn't go waving your video in front of the head networks, but at least there's no real illegal issue here. Clip theft from vidder to vidder is, of course, not a legal issue. But it is extremely frowned upon by most music video sites as a serious offense, because really, all this music vidding is about is status with your friends, and making a video that trully gives feeling. If clip theft can't get you either of those, then you might as well not do it.
Thanks for the cooperation! I'm sure we wont be seeing any more of these, at least from anyone that reads up on what they're doing, but in case it does, everyone just keep an eye out for your fellow vidders, okay.

To read more about this, I HIGHLY recommend one of our affiliates, "Fade to Black". It's all about preventing clip theft. I learned all I know from there, and it can explain this all a LOT better than I can
http://www.dreamvision-entertainment.com/videoelite/fadetoblack.html

- Hobbes!


Last edited by Hobbes on Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:37 am; edited 3 times in total
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MoreLight
Advanced Vidder


Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 439
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mixed feelings to see this post here. Glad that you and the others are now watching out for this as it seems to pop up in all music vid sites I've visited and sad that it actually had to happen for you to bring up. You made a very informative and eloquent post here.

Shame on you who do it intentionally out of laziness or other cheater mentality.

For those innocents who know nothing about what this means (as I didn't when I first started vidding) and do it as a mistake it is good to know what not to do it is an interesting concept.

Vids do have markers in them that can be seen in editing software.
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Hobbes
Council Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the vidder's firs video, or at least first vid submitted here. Easy enough mistake I think. And hopefully this situation doesn't happen again. I'm not gonna mention any names, and if you happen to know, please don't. We want to handle this with a bit of class and we don't need any poor unsuspecting newbie being prosecuted by everyone they come across. And that goes for anybody who thinks they've found a video. Just PM one of the council members about it and we'll get right on it as soon as we can, thanking you profusely!
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Astarte



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to add two points for the vidders.

Please, please use a watermark in your videos like Charmax or me, this has become common in the BtVS fandom because the clip theft incidents didn't stop and this was the only way vidders could protect their work from most thieves. Seriously, this is the easiest way to prove that footage of your video was used in another, plus it made it easy on award pages for the judges to ban vids from the contest and it is so easy added. Please use the watermark as a tool to protect your work and it adds in my opinion a nice professional touch to the final video.

Second if you are serious about protecting your vids, encode in real media, because this format can not be imported in most video editing software without new encoding.

And I'm glad that the Lost fandom starts to become aware of the etiquette of vidding. I found parts of my 'Shut your mouth' video in three videos so far, but I couldn't bring myself to yell at the editors, because it was so obvious that they didn't know, what they were doing with the video as a whole and my footage and that it was just wrong to begin with. Plus I knew this would happen, when I encoded it in wmv.
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Hobbes
Council Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great tips right there.

And again, if you find any that are on this site, just tell us, and we'll change accordingly for it. Even if you don't want to get the person in trouble or something, please just tell us anyway and say so if you really don't want them to be punished for it. If we feel it's a minor offense AND you feel like no punishment is needed, then we wont be doing any BUT if either you don't really care whether they get punished or not, worse, or we find that the video just would never stand a chance without the clips it stole, then punishments are definitely in order. So tell us here. now if you know any. And I'll go download and compare right now! Once by an unsuspecting newbie is okay... but more than that!? Now I'm getting a little mad
Tell us now. Please! Just PM me or one of the other council members.
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MoreLight
Advanced Vidder


Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 439
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That watermark is a great idea as it serves 2 purposes in my mind. Even though I just submitted a watermark-less vid last night.

1) It (for the most part) prevents the malicious/ignorant from clip-theft
2) It clears up the issue of if this new guy/gal "stole my clip"

I have been viewing more and more of the vids here and noticed a number of scenes that I used in my vid but luckily they had the DivX mark on these vids whereas my vid is not encoded in DivX so I am safe from accusation as mine are "naked."

In other fandoms I've had the feeling that someone took my clips. Only recently have I started to reluctantly place a watermark and I feel so much better/safer.
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Astarte



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't hesitate to tag your vids. Add a graphic that represents you best or your name in a nice font, if you don't feel artistic. No viewer will take offence or did anyone ever complain about the ABC logo in your vids? No. It is simple as that and effective as hell in clearing things up, when you are a victim of clip theft. For you as vidder, judges on award pages or here on LVI and viewers, they don't have to pay attention and look out for stolen clips, watermarks just catch your eye, when they are suddenly in a vid where they don't belong.

You are safer, I wouldn't have even noticed, that the scenes were taken from my vid without the watermark and Hobbes, these vids didn't even had a chance to land on lostvideo.net...
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Hobbes
Council Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are safer, I wouldn't have even noticed, that the scenes were taken from my vid without the watermark and Hobbes, these vids didn't even had a chance to land on lostvideo.net...


LOL thank God! I was worried there for a second.
I'll start watermarking mine from now on too but I don't see why... because every video that goes onto here gets watched by me, and I would probably recognise my own clips >.< lol, oh well
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Charmax
Advanced Vidder


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 227
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading everyone's thoughts on this subject it's good that the Lost fandom nips it in the bud before it gets out of control. *cough BtVS fandom cough*

If you don't put your mark on your work although you might recognise your edits most other vidders probably won't. Therefore won't be able to alert you or watch your back if stolen material turns up. Also it just makes it easier to prove in the event of a dispute.

On a more positive note your mark (bug) is not just a preventive measure but also a nice way to identify your work to the viewers.

WOW Astarte the one video you didn't encode in RM turns up three times that's incredible bad luck!!
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Yakkul7
Advanced Vidder


Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that this might be a problem, but isnt this all for fun and just for everybody's enjoyment. If someone uses other vidders clips, just dont accept it on the website. Trust me, I know that making videos is hard (ive been working on one for 2 weeks) but this is for enjoyment, and if someone just messes up and takes some of your stuff, once they know you dont like it, they wont do it again
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SuperKC
Expert Vidder


Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 3667
Location: On a Stick

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing mentioned here, is that the council will have no way of knowing whether or not the clips are stolen because they sift through so many videos a week that it would be impossible to remember every single cut/transition/effect in each one. Another thing that I think is important to note, is that while this is definately the premiere place to come for lost videos, it's not the only place - so there are videos out there that the council members haven't even seen.

Even as a beginner, I just instinctively know that it would be wrong to steal any part of someone else's video. But that doesn't mean everyone knows that.

Because of that, I think this post is, more than anything, one for education. It happened here on an accident, due to a beginner not knowing any better. This post is just a head's up to those people who don't know, and a quiet way of letting those people who would still do it maliciously (because there are people like that out there), that it's not accepted here.

It's just for fun, yes. But I don't think stealing someone's hard work should be a matter that LVI takes lightly if they want to keep the integrity of the site.

Some places probably even have blacklists and walls of shame listing the names of vidders who are known to steal. I know they have it at design/fanfiction/other types of websites, so I'm sure it's somewhere out there in the video world.

I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm just saying, this thread is just trying to prevent this kind of stuff from happening - not rain on anybody's parade.
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mattconner
Advanced Vidder


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: falsely accused Reply with quote

hmm.. I really don't wanna say this but I was suspected of stealin clip from another vidder!

The thing is, in my vid and that other vid, we both use the same clip from the recap before Pilot Episode2 ( You know the one that starts with ...Last Wednesday and on and on... and ends with .. tonight their stories continue.) It's a clip of Kate, Jack, and Charlie runnin from Lostzilla and they cut really fast to Kate screamin "Jack" and quick fade to white. The council, apparently haven't seen this recap, but they've seen it in another vidder's video. So you know why i'm being suspected. It made me me .. bad about the whole thing though. I mean I just love doing all the vids and had no intentions of stealin whatsoever, and I haven't even seen the video they claimed i'm stealin from.

Ok...my point is! everyone who has the bit torrent file of Pilot episode, please go back and take a look at the recap at the beginning of Pilot episode 2! to prove my point that i'm not and will never be a clip theft!!

Thank you!
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Hobbes
Council Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again Matt, sorry about that And we "suspected" you, not "accused" you LOL
I didn't see that trailer you got it from, so anyway, I apologize. The whole thing just didn't fit at all: you, one of our best vidders, stealing, that one tiny clip being all I could find, etc. But nonetheless I thought something had to be done. Oh well, no harm done, right?
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mattconner
Advanced Vidder


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: falsely suspected!! Reply with quote

yea Hobbes! no harm done, no hard feelings.
I can't belive you haven't seen that clip! I can send it to you if you want.
The editing was pretty neat! anyway..I just want you guys to get the whole thing straight that's all!

Thanx again
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lostcalier
Council Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 2850
Location: NC, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I never reviewed the two videos that were in question this time so I don't really have much room to comment but Hobbes was just looking out for the vidders in question. He saw a really unique clip that apparently most people haven't seen before and recognized it from another video. Which after the number of videos we watch daily it is amazing that he picked up on that. He just simple wanted to clarify the situation. To be honest Hobbes never thought you had stolen a clip he actually thought that you might have had a clip stolen from you. I apologize that this happened to you and can't wait to see more videos from you.

I do encourage you guys to look out for each others videos. Just make sure all the research is done before you come out with the accusation. Hobbes, did a great deal of looking into the situation he just missed that recap from which the clip was taken. So again I apologize this happened and am grateful that you have handled the situation in a mature way. Thank you and I can't wait to see more vids from you.
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