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Game of Thrones (Season 3)
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KajaM
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very late to the party this time, sorry. I just came back from my holidays yesterday.

Anyway, I'd already heard by a lot of people that this episode was slow, so I was prepared for it. I was still a bit disappointed though. Seeing that this episode was written by GRRM himself, I kinda expected... more?
There were some really good moments here, like adding a bit of character depth to Osha or Gendry finding out about being Robert Baratheon's son. A lot of moments were really superfluous, imho, like that Margaery/Sansa scene or Tyrion/Bronn. As much as I enjoyed seeing Bronn again - and as much as I liked Sansa's self-reflection - the ep could've really done without those moments... and maybe with a little more action instead??

Quote:
The Theon torture scenes verges on torture porn but I really enjoyed them. I was glad they didn't show anymore of the gelding. The actor playing boy is fantastic as is Alfie Allen so I really enjoy those scenes just not so much when it's a bit gruesome lol


I'm quite the opposite here, Paul, sorry to say:
I hated the scene... I thought it was really stupid, especially on Theon's part. How could he fall for that trick? Ugh!
I see how this scene makes sense in a really perverted way - Ramsay literally taking away the only thing that Theon was "known" for and proud of and thus destroying the "man" Theon - but really: Stupid, stupid, stupid and horrible to watch!!

Quote:
Dany scene was amazing. The way she spoke to the Yunkai guy had me cheering and simultaneously wondering why she doesn't just head off on the boat they gave her and not treat people so coarsely. She might be on a righteous course but she is being a right jerk about it.


Totally agreed!
I also kept thinking... "Boy, Drogon is really turning into an ugly thing!"

I was wondering about Talisa and the pregnancy, too, Julia. I guess we'll see soon enough. I guess that if

Spoiler:

Talisa, too, is killed during the RW, than Jeyne Westerling's story in the books may not be going anywhere. If Talisa survives though, I think that we can expect more in Book 6 or 7.



And what's up with Gendry's storyline?
Where do you think all this is going?
I'm so confused about it - excited, too, because I love Gendry - but mainly confused, seeing that he is now

Spoiler:

taking up Edric's part in some ways and Book!Gendry didn't really seem to play an important role anymore, so I'm really wondering what the showrunners - and perhaps also GRRM - are planning to do with him??



And I agree with both of you: I love Jaime and Brienne, I loved their goodbye scene ("Ser Jaime", awww!!! <3<3<3), but I was bit disappointed with the bear fight. I guess it was a matter of budget though really. I think they're spending so much money on the CGI for the dragons already that they probably couldn't spend any more money on a computer generated bear as well. I think the fight would've been a lot faster and more exciting with a computer generated bear... the possibilities with a living animal are simply very limited. So I believe they did the best they could with what they had.

Julia, as for Sandor/Arya:
Ok, so I have been really wondering about the limited time we've left for their storyline, too, and... do you think it's possible that Sandor will not

Spoiler:

"die"



in 3x10 yet?
I mean, you are totally right when you say that their journey together isn't really that eventful apart from the

Spoiler:

RW, obviously, and the fight with Gregor's men



but it needs some time to be established and developed and there are only three episodes left in which they'll get, what, five minutes per episode at the most?
Besides, when Sandor

Spoiler:

"died" in the books, they both already knew that Sansa had escaped from KL and from the Lannisters... an information which may yet be important to Arya's and/or Sandor's storyline?? If so, they will still be travelling together for a little while longer in S4. I hope they will!! *fingers crossed*


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KajaM
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I forgot to ask:
Are they trying to hint at Margaery being gay???
Or am I just misinterpreting her comment about how "some like girls" and the way she looked at the woman passing by. That would put things into a completely different light, especially with the things yet to come like

Spoiler:

Margaery's various "lovers"


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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KajaM wrote:
Seeing that this episode was written by GRRM himself, I kinda expected... more?

Agreed. And of all episodes for him to write, why that one?

Quote:
And what's up with Gendry's storyline? Where do you think all this is going?


Spoiler:

Considering that we left Book!Gendry working at the inn and Edric hiding in the Free Cities with guardians appointed by Davos, I can't even imagine at this point! It's hard to tell whether more is going to happen with Edric or not. Frankly, there are so many loose threads in the books, I don't see how he can tie them all up in two books. So I feel like they could go anywhere with Gendry. Maybe Davos will rescue him like he did Edric, or maybe they will cut out the Free Cities part and just put Gendry on whatever path Gendry will take if he comes back to Westeros. I just hope they don't kill him! That would MEGA suck!



Quote:
I was bit disappointed with the bear fight. I guess it was a matter of budget though really.


Yeah, I think you're right about that, Karolina!

As for Sandor and Arya:
Spoiler:

I believe their time together will be short. Once they get to Riverrun and she sees she has little left in Westeros, their time together serves no purpose. Plus, the seasons usually end with characters on their way to a new adventure. At the end of season one, Arya was headed north with Yoren. At the end of season two she escaped from Harrenhal. So I think this year we'll see her on her way to Braavos in the end. I wouldn't mind being wrong, though.



KajaM wrote:
Oh, I forgot to ask: Are they trying to hint at Margaery being gay??? Or am I just misinterpreting her comment about how "some like girls" and the way she looked at the woman passing by. That would put things into a completely different light, especially with the things yet to come like
Spoiler:

Margaery's various "lovers"



Hmm, I didn't catch that either time, but very possibly! I do think that was one great part about that scene--is that we get a little glimpse of the fact that Margaery isn't an innocent little maid.

ETA: Here's an interesting article I saw about how they expect to get through seven seasons.

http://winteriscoming.net/2013/05/thrones-producer-well-probably-get-through-seven-seasons/
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Edited to add: I LOVE LOVE LOVE this analysis of the "goodbye scene" between Jaime and Brienne at Harrenhal:

http://balladedutempsjadis.tumblr.com/post/50387361538/i-dreamed-of-you-show-version


That's a great analysis!
To be completely honest, I don't remember much of Jaime's dream anymore. I think if I was a "real" Jaime/Brienne shipper, I'd probably know all their moments from the books off by heart. *lol* I remember his "I dreamed of you" line though and while I missed it, I thought that the scene was still very good. I loved Brienne's "Goodbye, Ser Jaime" quote because it shows that she now knows who he really is and she accepts and probably even respects him. <3 <3 <3

Quote:
ETA: Here's an interesting article I saw about how they expect to get through seven seasons.

http://winteriscoming.net/2013/05/thrones-producer-well-probably-get-through-seven-seasons/


I've read that article, too, and I'm rather confused about it. While I think that 10 seasons, as many fans suggest, may be too much, I don't see how they can finish the saga in four more seasons??

I think that the first half of S4 will cover the rest of ASOS and they'll probably move on to AFFC/ADWD in the second half. There are, admittedly, a lot of storylines from the fourth and the fifth book that can be shortened and cut down a lot though like:

Spoiler:

- Brienne's search for Sansa. Here they could probably even leave Ser Hyle out entirely and make it just about Brienne & Podrick, imo. While I'd sure like to see Ser Hyle on the show, I don't really think that he's that important.
- the Greyjoys. They can shorten their various stories and POVs a lot, too. I'm not sure about Victarion, but I think that they could probably leave at least Aeron out entirely, too, if they wanted to.
- the Sand Snakes. I'm pretty sure we will not get to see all of them. Oberyn, Doran and Arianne Martell seem to be the most important characters of the Dorne storyline, so I think that the Sand Snakes will not have a big role to play.
- Tyrion's journey to Esos and Dany's really tiresome "adventures" in Mereen.
- Jon's work as Lord Commander. I think they will cut that down a lot, too.



I think that AFFC/ADWD will be covered in S4.2, S5 and maybe S6.1?

Now, here's what bothers me:
While I think that GRRM will be able to finish TWOW in time for TV production, I really don't see how he can finish ADOS on time, do you??

Besides, I expect TWOW & ADOS to be a lot more eventful than AFFC & ADWD, so that - in my opinion - they'd need at least 1.5 seasons for each of the last two books. Which would lead to S6.2 and S7 covering Book 6 and S8 and possibly S9 covering Book 7.

What do you think??
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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that article quotes one of the producers as saying that, "season four will be the second part of book three."

So it doesn't sound like they will move onto book four until season five. I'm guessing they are looking at AFFC/ADWD as one book as it was intended, so it sounds like they plan on going like:

Season Four: 2nd half of book three
Season Five: Book Four/Five
Season Six: Book Six
Season Seven: Book Seven

I think they can definitely pull it off, because as you said, there is a lot that can be cut out/shortened.

I expect we will see a great deviation from the books as time goes on, because unfortunately they've had to cut out so much of the history and mythology of the series, some things that happen just wouldn't be able to be pulled in without a significant amount of exposition. I think we'll see a lot more condensing, not only of storylines, but of characters.

I definitely don't think GRRM will finish ADOS before the series is over. At this point, I would be amazed if we even see TWoW before the show is over. It was six years between AFFC and ADWD, and here that was supposed to be all one book and GRRM didn't have half as much pull on his time as he has now. I think that's why it was so important for the producers and some of the writers to go out to Santa Fe and have a powwow with GRRM, where he told them *everything*, because they need to know where things are going so they can sail on without him. I think in some ways that's also why GRMM is allowing them to take things in their own direction a little--because that way there are still some surprises left in the books. Season Seven will air in spring of 2017, and I believe that will be the final season, and then book six will come out that summer, six years after ADWD.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty much following on with the show reading ASOS again and I am about 44% in so it's working out at about 50% for season 3 so yeah chances are season 4 will be mostly ASOS part 2.

My thoughts on the latest episode..

OMG Sam the Slayer scene was amazing. I honestly ended up not caring that other people didn't see him or that Coldhands didn't appear. The fury in Sam's face when he rammed the dagger into the white walker's back was epic. I was worried they would just have him kill a wight and not a white walker.

What was up with all the ravens? That usually is a sign for Coldhands. It worked really well in the scene to ramp up the tension. Thought it was The Birds for a second Hopefully it is a nod that Coldhands will appear at some point. Perhaps they will introduce him to Bran's story instead of Sam's?

Sansa and Tyrion's wedding scene was great. Only thing missing was Sansa refusing to kneel down which was a shame. Joffrey is really pissing me off now.
Spoiler:

Can't wait for his death >D



Cersei and Loras LOL

Loved that the episode opened with Arya and the Hound. Their scenes were great and hopefully we get some more next episode.

Dragonstone was cool. Love that they kept the leeches scene in although it lacked the gravitas of the book scenes with him calling out the usurpers' names. Melisandre is hot

Daario is pretty cool. Didn't mind the changes from the books. It is probably for the better.

I loved the scene with Mero and Dany. It was Kraznys all over again although this time he was speaking in the common tongue and not caring she understood. You just knew he was gonna meet a bad end.

This was a return to form for GOT. So glad after some lacklustre episodes.
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KajaM
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
OMG Sam the Slayer scene was amazing. I honestly ended up not caring that other people didn't see him or that Coldhands didn't appear. The fury in Sam's face when he rammed the dagger into the white walker's back was epic. I was worried they would just have him kill a wight and not a white walker.


That moment was amazing!!! I also love that it was the same Walker that we (and Sam) saw at the end of S2. So cool!
I also pretty much loved every Sam/Gilly scene so far. They're adorable together!!
However: Did Sam leave the Dragonglass behind????

Quote:
Perhaps they will introduce him to Bran's story instead of Sam's?


I think you could be right here!

Quote:
Sansa and Tyrion's wedding scene was great. Only thing missing was Sansa refusing to kneel down which was a shame. Joffrey is really pissing me off now.


Yes, I think that a lot of fans were upset about the kneeling. I was really curious whether it would happen or not - and a bit disappointed, too, when she did kneel down but I think that the producers wanted to avoid more fan bashing against Sansa, perhaps??

Apart from that though, they did a good job on their wedding. I felt horribly sorry for both of them. They both looked so miserable!!

Joffrey is the world's biggest creep!!! Die already, die!!!!

Quote:
Cersei and Loras LOL



Poor Loras!!
I wonder though when they'll have him

Spoiler:

join the Kingsguard???



Quote:
Melisandre is hot


Well, umm, I must say that I was rather disgusted at the Melissandre/Gendry scene. I'm glad they didn't do anything "worse" to Gendry though. I definitely expected something worse!

Quote:
Daario is pretty cool.


Umm, really?
Ugh, I always hated Daario in the books and I can't say that I like him any better on the show so far.

I also LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the Sandor/Arya scene, even though it was really short, and Davos trying to read Shireen's book. <3<3<3


... OMG, you guys, next week!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOVED the Sam the Slayer scene! Loved the bickering between him and Gilly, too. <3 And yes--he did leave the dragon glass behind! But, as I said to Steven:
Spoiler:

It's ok since he won't need it again if they stick with the books.



I loved everything about Sansa and Tyrion's wedding--well, I hate that they had to get married, but I liked the show version. I was actually glad that they took all the shaming of Tyrion off of Sansa and put it on Joffrey. I feel like Show!Sansa has shed more of the spoiled princessyness that Book!Sansa still had by this point, so I felt it made more sense. Although, admittedly, he had to *ask* her to kneel, so in some ways she was still being a little defiant. I liked it a lot. Also: I LOOOOOVED Cersei and Margaery's scene. "If you ever call me sister again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep." EPIC! And I felt bad for Loras when she shut him down. OH! And TQoT's family tree breakdown... SOOO funny! I really liked how the wedding night played out as well as the morning and the look on Shae's face when she realized they didn't consummate.

Dany's scenes were great. I have to say, I rather like that Daario. I also was not a fan in the books, but I think that has more to do with how the Yunkai chapters dragged on and on without mercy. In the books,
Spoiler:

I believe he genuinely loves Dany.

It's interesting that they made him part of the Second Sons rather than the Stormcrows. I suppose that's a fitting condensation of things.

Missandei's correction of Dany's Dothraki was cute.

Ok... onto the best part... SANDOR AND ARYA! I really do wish we were going to get more of them together. I really liked the way they toned down his sentiment about Sansa and how Arya seemed pleasantly surprised when he said he was taking her to the wedding at the Twins. I really wanted her to elaborate on how she had, in fact, met his brother, but I guess there was no time for that. It's funny the way she hangs onto her hatred for him and how it becomes almost hyperbole. There are people who wronged her far greater than him--Joffrey, for starters--and yet she says there's no one worse than him? I think the fact that Mycah was a true innocent really struck her at the core.
Spoiler:

I hope she will get over it someday and realize that Sandor really tried to help her and tried to help her sister. I worry so much that she won't drop her vendetta against him.



Great episode! I wish we didn't have to wait two weeks for the next one!
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KajaM wrote:
Well, umm, I must say that I was rather disgusted at the Melissandre/Gendry scene. I'm glad they didn't do anything "worse" to Gendry though. I definitely expected something worse!


Yeah well Meilsandre does creep me out but she is also hot I think it's the femme fatale thing.
Quote:

Umm, really?
Ugh, I always hated Daario in the books and I can't say that I like him any better on the show so far.


Daario wasn't one of my favourites in the books but I think the actor is doing a good job. It shall be interesting to see what they do with him.

Quote:

I also LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the Sandor/Arya scene, even though it was really short, and Davos trying to read Shireen's book. <3<3<3


That was so cute with Davos learning to read. I love him in the show even more than the books and I loved him there too. Can't wait to see more Shireen with Davos. Hopefully we get some more of that..

Quote:
... OMG, you guys, next week!!!!!!!!


God I hope it lives up to the hype! I've been waiting all season for episode 9.

eloramoon wrote:
Ok... onto the best part... SANDOR AND ARYA! I really do wish we were going to get more of them together. I really liked the way they toned down his sentiment about Sansa and how Arya seemed pleasantly surprised when he said he was taking her to the wedding at the Twins. I really wanted her to elaborate on how she had, in fact, met his brother, but I guess there was no time for that. It's funny the way she hangs onto her hatred for him and how it becomes almost hyperbole. There are people who wronged her far greater than him--Joffrey, for starters--and yet she says there's no one worse than him? I think the fact that Mycah was a true innocent really struck her at the core.
Spoiler:

I hope she will get over it someday and realize that Sandor really tried to help her and tried to help her sister. I worry so much that she won't drop her vendetta against him.


I really enjoyed the Arya and Sandor stuff and did appreciate the humanisation of the Hound. I think we will end up getting the scene from the book where
Spoiler:

she leaves him on the side of the road badly wounded and doesn't finish him off.

He's never gonna be her buddy or anything though. That would be weird. I do think there are worse people than the Hound but he is still pretty bad in my eyes. The thing that differentiaties him from everyone else is his truly messed up childhood which helps explain who he is but doesn't really excuse his actions and his obsession with killing people and stuff like that. Maybe it will take Arya and Sansa to soften him a little though.

I was like Karolina and Julia will be squeeing when the opening scene came on lol
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was like Karolina and Julia will be squeeing when the opening scene came on lol


LOL!!! You're right!
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eloramoon wrote:
Quote:
I was like Karolina and Julia will be squeeing when the opening scene came on lol


LOL!!! You're right!


Absolutely!!
I think that Julia and I look at him from a different angle than other people. We see the softer, more human side. The protection he gave Sansa, how he tried to return Arya to her family etc.
It's not an excuse for his crimes and for his behaviour, I agree. He is still pretty messed up, he's a killer and a drunk, I see that. Like you said though, his childhood was pretty frakked up. He was physically and emotionally abused by his brother and I always had a feeling that his father was pretty much a coward who was afraid of Gregor as well and didn't do anything to protect Sandor. I'm not surprised that a kid like that grows into an emotionally rather unstable man full of rage and hatred.
I think (and hope) that there's a lot of potential in him though. I expect to see a different, a better man after the QI.

Oh, by the way, did you notice that Joffrey referred to himself as a Lannister in the last ep??
(He told Sansa that it wouldn't matter which "Lannister" would bed her)

Also, I'm really curious about Stannis's vision of a "battle in the snow". What do you think was that all about??
The way I see it, it could be either:

Spoiler:

- Wildlings vs. Crows at the Wall
- Stannis marching upon Winterfell... but there hasn't been a battle yet, right? So it could be some kind of foreshadowing to TWOW??
- Or maybe the "final" battle in book 7? Dragons vs. Others, or whatever it will be???


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KajaM wrote:
I think that Julia and I look at him from a different angle than other people. We see the softer, more human side. The protection he gave Sansa, how he tried to return Arya to her family etc.
It's not an excuse for his crimes and for his behaviour, I agree. He is still pretty messed up, he's a killer and a drunk, I see that. Like you said though, his childhood was pretty frakked up. He was physically and emotionally abused by his brother and I always had a feeling that his father was pretty much a coward who was afraid of Gregor as well and didn't do anything to protect Sandor. I'm not surprised that a kid like that grows into an emotionally rather unstable man full of rage and hatred.
I think (and hope) that there's a lot of potential in him though. I expect to see a different, a better man after the QI.


So true, Karolina. I don't believe Sandor has ever killed just for pleasure. I think he wholeheartedly believes that everyone he kills has it coming, and he enjoys giving people what he feels they deserve. Mycah is a tricky situation because the boy was accused of attacking Joffrey with Arya, and unfortunately, being a boy and probably a bit older, he was made fully responsible even though he really did nothing to Joffrey at all. But all it took was Joffrey and Sansa accusing him, and it was all over. I don't believe Sandor knew the boy was innocent. I think he believed Mycah had tried to hurt the prince, and he was simply following an order. And, I think he probably didn't enjoy that one a bit, even if he would say so. But, either way, Mycah's blood is as much on Sansa's hands and Joffrey's--and maybe a little on Ned's and the northmen for not trying harder to protect him.

This is what fascinates me about these books and these characters--and this was the same thing that got me with Lost, which is this wild interplay between good and bad and how that is so often relative to what side you're on. Lost always made us think someone was a bad guy (Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Ben) and then flipped our perspective around as we got to see what motivated their actions. And with GoT characters, I think the important thing is not what they *did* but what they *do* moving forward. Like--we forgive Jaime for crippling and nearly killing a totally innocent Bran and slaughtering Ned's men, simply because we understand what made him who he is and we see him begin to redeem himself. I feel that Sandor, while still quite gritty in the books, has begun to redeem himself with saving Sansa and his offer to take her to Winterfell, and with saving Arya who he might have been better rewarded for in King's Landing. I do think the QI will grind down a few more of those rough edges, though I'm not sure he'll ever be fully free of the pain and rage.

Quote:
Oh, by the way, did you notice that Joffrey referred to himself as a Lannister in the last ep??
(He told Sansa that it wouldn't matter which "Lannister" would bed her)


I DID!!! I wasn't sure if that was just a stretch, because he's legitimately half-Lannister through his mom, or whether that was an admission and confirmation that he knows the rumors of his parentage are true, or whether that was a continuity error, since we all think of him as a Lannister since we know Jaime is his father, even though he's *supposed* to be a Baratheon. Very odd!

Quote:
Also, I'm really curious about Stannis's vision of a "battle in the snow". What do you think was that all about??


I assumed he was talking about the

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG,OMG,OMG!!!
It's coming, you guys! We're almost there!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I KNOW!!!

I'm going to watch Sunday with my mom instead of waiting until Monday.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to wait til Monday, after work.
Can't wait to discuss!!!!!
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