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Game of Thrones (books & TV show)
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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great description of our feelings toward Sandor/Sansa, Karolina!

Shipping "San/San" is a little tricky because the implication is that we're shipping a 13 year old with an adult man, when in reality most of us are shipping the *possibility* of them at some future point. Of course we're still going to giggle and squeal over any development of them now, because that all counts toward wherever it is they happen to be going. I know people get squicky about it because of the books when
Spoiler:

Sandor pushes her onto the bed and later tells Arya he wished he'd raped Sansa

but my feeling on that has always been that he never really wanted or intended to rape her. If he had, he would have. Yes--in our day and age it would be really effed up and wrong for a man to push a 13 year old girl down onto a bed and lie on top of her like he did, and I'm not saying it wouldn't have been wrong "then", too, but Sansa obviously wasn't too upset about it or she wouldn't have
Spoiler:

reached up and caressed his cheek.

That always made me feel a bit better about that scene. I also think that Sandor's intentions toward Sansa are at least a bit more honorable--that's not to say that he doesn't think of her sexually at all, but I feel like he would do right by her honor because I think he does love her in his own weird way. The thing that's differen't with Petyr/Sansa, though, is that Petyr's intentions toward her seem to be much skeevier. And yeah--the fact that he sees her as a sexual object to replace her mother is just--ugh! So yucky. =\
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KajaM
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question concerning Sandor in book 4:

Spoiler:

Ok, so I think it's pretty obvious that Sandor is the "gravedigger", the "novice", on the Quiet Isle.
However, I am a little confused because... umm... shouldn't Podrick have recognized him?? Sandor was serving them during the meal and he wasn't hooded or whatsoever, so Podrick should've recognized him from King's Landing, don't you think??


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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KajaM wrote:
I have a question concerning Sandor in book 4:

Spoiler:

Ok, so I think it's pretty obvious that Sandor is the "gravedigger", the "novice", on the Quiet Isle.
However, I am a little confused because... umm... shouldn't Podrick have recognized him?? Sandor was serving them during the meal and he wasn't hooded or whatsoever, so Podrick should've recognized him from King's Landing, don't you think??



Good question!

Spoiler:

I re-read the section but I couldn't find where it said he wasn't hooded.

If it didn't say his hood was off, my guess it was still on because he is a novice. I know with monks--in our world, at least--it was typically customary for the equivalent of a novice to never remove their cowl until their final vows were taken. If his hood was on it probably would have obscured his face just enough.

If it did say his hood was off and I just missed it, I'm guessing that he's probably clean shaven and his hair is cut, so if Pod only saw him from his non-burned side, it's possible he just didn't recognize him. It could be kind of a stretch, but so was Petyr not instantly recognizing Arya at Tywin's table in the show, I think. LOL! I also think it could be a little bit of a red herring from GRRM because he doesn't want us to be sure whether or not that is Sandor.


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KajaM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I finished AFFC today and posted another review on Goodreads:

Spoiler:

Seeing that AFFC has gotten quite a lot of negative reviews and some low ratings, I was expecting to be disappointed with the fourth book of the ASOIAF saga. Well, I WAS indeed a bit disappointed with the slow pace and "eventlessness" of this book, especially compared to the really mindblowing, crazy third book of ASOIAF.
I must say though that I, nonetheless, enjoyed this book well enough. Blame it on George's excellent characterisations

I was rather shocked at first when I saw that there was NO Tyrion in this book, NO Dany, hardly any mention of Jon Snow, and only a few chapters with Arya and Sansa. While I DID miss those characters, George made up for their absence by doing a FANTASTIC job on Cersei, Jaime and Brienne. Those three characters easily ran the show in AFFC.

Here are some more detailed thoughts:

Cersei & Jaime
So, umm, can you blame me for being happy about the Lannisters starting to fall apart? No? See, I thought so
I can't help it: I love(d) to hate Joffrey and I love to hate Cersei while my heart goes out to Tyrion and Jaime. While George managed to wring some tiny moments of sympathy for Cersei from me, I still love to hate her and I still hope that she'll get what she deserves in the end. I know that she, ultimately, just tries to do what is best for her children and tries to free herself from her father's immensely long shadow and the "chains" of being born with the "wrong" gender. She is, however, a pretty nasty, evil, cold-blooded piece of work. All the sympathy that I may - or may not - have had for her died again when it was shown what her Frankstein!henchman Qyburn had done to the innocent singer on Cersei's behalf.
It was really fascinating to see Cersei struggle with the hardships of ruling a kingdom and I almost -just ALMOST - felt sorry for her, seeing how it led to her giving herself up to heavy drinking, whoring and far-reaching paranoia.

For Jaime, however, it is probably the best thing that could've happen to him... breaking apart with his beloved twin sister. I NEVER would've expected to love Jaime as much as I do now. He's still full of flaws, but my heart truly breaks for him and with him... seeing him being caught between being the man Cersei and Tywin always wanted him to be and the man he TRULY wants to be: A man who sticks with his vows and (in my opinion) the man that Brienne is already seeing in him.
I literally squeed with joy when Jaime decided to ignore Cersei's desperate call for him to come back to King's Landing and rescue her. Way to go, bro!!! Looks like Brienne's had a HUGE impact on you, my friend! Yay!!

Brienne (and Podrick):
So, I've said it before and I will say it again: BRIENNE IS TOO DAMN LOYAL FOR HER OWN GOOD!
Truly, woman, this will be your death someday, yet I can't help it but LOVE you for being the way you are! You are my true knight in shining armour. Period.
Brienne will get an extra point from me for taking Podrick Payne along as her squire. Podrick! My sweet little Podpup! Even though Sansa Stark is effing MEANT TO BE with Sandor Clegane, I hope that at least you'll get the girl if George will not grant me my other wish. You'd make a great husband!

The Greyjoys and the Martells/Sands:
While I liked the Martells and Sands well enough, I kept wondering: Do we really NEED more characters and more storylines?? I hope that George has planned a really interesting and intruiging storyline for them. Until then, I will remain really wary towards those characters.

Same goes for the Greyjoys.
Well, I DO like Asha and I'm looking forward to seeing Theon again in ADWD, but I can't warm up to the rest of the Greyjoys. I never liked Balon and I don't really care much about Victarion and Aeron. And Euron's just creepy and evil. I hope he won't get anywhere near Dany!!!

Sansa
Sansa is the one character I'm most looking forward to seeing again in "The Winds of Winter". I'm DYING to see where her storyline is going... there are SO many possibilities. But please!!! Someone rescue her from Littlefinger's grasp!!! He is so creepy!!! I also hope that Sansa will be able to protect little Robert from LF's evil plans.

Arya
I love how Arya is becoming a real badass although I really don't have a clue where it'll take her in the upcoming books.

Samwell
Well, what can I say... I was hoping that Sam would get some more heroic stuff to do after all the amazing moments he had in ASOS. At least he got laid... haha

One last thing that I need to get off my chest:

WHAT IS IT WITH ALL THOSE DAMN CLOSE CALLS??? ARRRGHHHH!!!

Some moments I remember from Book 3 and 4 that drove me insane:
- Sam stumbling upon Bran... yet not being able to tell Jon about it!
- Sam stumbling upon Arya... yet not knowing that she is Jon's sister!
- Arya & the Hound reaching the Twins just at the very moment that Catelyn and Robb were murdered by the Freys!! What the hell!!
- Brienne walking by the Hound on the Quiet Isle, not knowing that it is him.
- Brienne ALMOST telling Gendry that he's Robert Baratheon's son... argh!!!
- Brienne being SO CLOSE to Sansa throughout the whole damn book, yet never quite getting there!

And I'm sure there must've been still many, many more. George, you're such a troll!!!

Anyway, I really enjoyed the fourth book and I think it was a great, first setup to the big events yet to come in "The Winds of Winter" and "A Dream of Spring"



Here are some thoughts and questions that I have right now:
Spoiler:


- WHY didn't Arya react when Dareon mentioned "Lord Snow", the new Lord Commander of the Wall? SANSA did react to that... why not Arya?

- Will we find out more about Arianne Martell's arranged secret betrothal in ADWD? Seeing that her father claimed that her betrothed was dead (or believed to be dead?) there are several possibilities: Joffrey Baratheon? Robb Stark? Theon Greyjoy? I think the first two options don't make much sense since Joffrey and Robb were promised to other girls already (Sansa and a Frey girl). Besides, this betrothal was apparently arranged as to bring the Lannisters down, so, umm.... uhh, I don't have a clue. Maybe one of Robert Baratheon's bastards... Gendry?

- Since some characters (Jaime/Brienne/Catelyn/Sansa/Littlefinger/Sandor) are pretty close geographically, I think it would be pretty cool if their paths would cross in the sixth book. I'd be really curious to see what would happen if Sansa & LF stumbled upon Lady Stoneheart and I want a Sansa/Sandor reunion, too, of course

- As for all the prophecies, I think it would be great if Jaime turned out to be the "valonqar".
I think that either Jon or Dany must be "Azor Ahai" and I want Sansa to be the "young queen" who will bring Cersei down. Right now it looks as if Margaery Tyrell might be this queen, but knowing George this can't be the end of it.


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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another excellent review, Karolina!

As to your questions...


Spoiler:

Quote:
- WHY didn't Arya react when Dareon mentioned "Lord Snow", the new Lord Commander of the Wall? SANSA did react to that... why not Arya?


I wondered that at first myself, but then I remembered that Snow is a bastard surname, and the wall would be a pretty common place for bastards to be. So, Jon is probably just one of many Snows at the wall, and chances are Arya knows that and just didn't make the connection, because she would have had no reason to believe her brother could have risen to Lord Commander so quickly.

Quote:
- Will we find out more about Arianne Martell's arranged secret betrothal in ADWD? Seeing that her father claimed that her betrothed was dead (or believed to be dead?) there are several possibilities: Joffrey Baratheon? Robb Stark? Theon Greyjoy? I think the first two options don't make much sense since Joffrey and Robb were promised to other girls already (Sansa and a Frey girl). Besides, this betrothal was apparently arranged as to bring the Lannisters down, so, umm.... uhh, I don't have a clue. Maybe one of Robert Baratheon's bastards... Gendry?


It was Viserys Targaryen that Doran had secretly betrothed her to. That is revealed in AFFC, but I think it was more alluded to than outright stated.

Quote:
- Since some characters (Jaime/Brienne/Catelyn/Sansa/Littlefinger/Sandor) are pretty close geographically, I think it would be pretty cool if their paths would cross in the sixth book. I'd be really curious to see what would happen if Sansa & LF stumbled upon Lady Stoneheart and I want a Sansa/Sandor reunion, too, of course


It does seem like they're on some kind of collision course, so I really do think we'll see that. I can't even imagine how that will go down!

Quote:
- As for all the prophecies, I think it would be great if Jaime turned out to be the "valonqar".


It will be so interesting to see which one it is!

Quote:
I think that either Jon or Dany must be "Azor Ahai" and I want Sansa to be the "young queen" who will bring Cersei down. Right now it looks as if Margaery Tyrell might be this queen, but knowing George this can't be the end of it.


Yeah, it seems too obvious that it would be Margaery, although, it could very well be the case. I'm not really sure how Sansa would become queen, though, as amazing as that would be. Anything is possible, I suppose. That would be so awesome!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally finished the fifth book *victory dance and also sadface*

Spoiler:

OMG Jon noooo He's not really dead, right? RIGHT? The prologue was so epic with Varys showing up at the end and killing Kevan. Hopefully Varys will be more in the sixth book now. So excited for Dany at last.. that was such an amazing moment when she mounts Drogon. It was F-yeah finally!



I have to say I really enjoyed the fifth book. Having heard mixed stuff on it seemed to flow really nicely and was really well balanced, better than the last book anyway.

So I've been spending my time since reading the Dunk and Egg short stories. They aren't really short stories.. I suppose they are more novellas as they are quite long but they're really cool and a lot of fun to read. They take place a hundred or so years before the events of ASOIAF.
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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I finally finished the fifth book *victory dance and also sadface*


YAAAAAAAAAY!!!

Quote:
Spoiler:

OMG Jon noooo He's not really dead, right? RIGHT? The prologue was so epic with Varys showing up at the end and killing Kevan. Hopefully Varys will be more in the sixth book now. So excited for Dany at last.. that was such an amazing moment when she mounts Drogon. It was F-yeah finally!



Spoiler:

I don't think he is really dead. I think at the very least he'll have warged into ghost, but I think there's also a possibility that Melissandre might resurrect him somehow. That was so awful and unexpected! I'm still shocked!

Loved the bit with Varys! I think so much more of the story hinges on him than we'd realized.

What did you think of Aegon? Do you think it's really him?

What did you think of Tyrion's adventures?

I was sooooooooo happy with everything that happened with Dany. It will be interesting to see if that khalasar tries to kill her or if they bow down to her because of Drogon.



(Karolina--did you finish book five yet? I can't remember!)

Quote:
I have to say I really enjoyed the fifth book. Having heard mixed stuff on it seemed to flow really nicely and was really well balanced, better than the last book anyway.


I felt the same way, Paul! It was a hair slow at the beginning, but I thought it took off a lot faster than some of the other books. So glad you enjoyed it!

Quote:
So I've been spending my time since reading the Dunk and Egg short stories. They aren't really short stories.. I suppose they are more novellas as they are quite long but they're really cool and a lot of fun to read. They take place a hundred or so years before the events of ASOIAF.


Ooo! I definitely want to read them, too.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eloramoon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I finally finished the fifth book *victory dance and also sadface*


YAAAAAAAAAY!!!

Quote:
Spoiler:

OMG Jon noooo He's not really dead, right? RIGHT? The prologue was so epic with Varys showing up at the end and killing Kevan. Hopefully Varys will be more in the sixth book now. So excited for Dany at last.. that was such an amazing moment when she mounts Drogon. It was F-yeah finally!



Spoiler:

I don't think he is really dead. I think at the very least he'll have warged into ghost, but I think there's also a possibility that Melissandre might resurrect him somehow. That was so awful and unexpected! I'm still shocked!



Spoiler:

Yeah.. I was thinking maybe Melisandre could save the day. She does seem to be fond of Jon. Him warging into Ghost is something I'd never thought of.. not sure if I'd like that although I suppose it would be a really interesting twist and some cool POV chapters to come from that!



Quote:
Spoiler:



What did you think of Aegon? Do you think it's really him?

What did you think of Tyrion's adventures?



Spoiler:

I was so surprised when they introduced another dragon heir to the throne. It's cool that it's a callback to book 1 with that conversation between Illyrio and Varys though. I suppose he's okay although he's a tad pompous but you have to expect that to some degree when you've been told you're a big deal all your life. One thing for sure Dany is not going to want to surrender her birthright easily, whether he has the better claim or not and she definetly won't want to marry her sibling.

My favourite place for Tyrion will always be Kings Landing. He seemed rather lost in book five but of course he remains one of my favourite characters. Penny is a tad annoying and I was worried they would pair them up and create the cliche dwarf/dwarf thing, but glad they didn't. I was hoping that Tyrion would meet up with Dany and end up her confidant or something like that but it never came to pass sadly.

I did really enjoy the Arya storyline with all the faceless man stuff. It was super interesting to me. How creepy was that room of faces? :S


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KajaM
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(Karolina--did you finish book five yet? I can't remember!)


No, I haven't even started with the fifth book yet

I got caught up in some YA novels, but I want to start with ADWD soon.
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KajaM
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still at the beginning of ADWD, but I'm wondering:

Spoiler:

Will I know by the end of the fifth book who - or what - Coldhand really is?

And where does Tyrion's sudden hatred for Jaime come from? I mean - Jaime was the one who helped him escape from KL, so... umm... ?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KajaM wrote:
I'm still at the beginning of ADWD, but I'm wondering:

Spoiler:

Will I know by the end of the fifth book who - or what - Coldhand really is?



And where does Tyrion's sudden hatred for Jaime come from? I mean - Jaime was the one who helped him escape from KL, so... umm... ?


Have you got on to the fifth book yet then?

Spoiler:

We don't ever find out who Coldhands is but I would love it to be Benjen Stark. They surely can't avoid this on the show and we will probably find out via the show.



Tyrion's hatred for Jaime was because he told Tyrion that Tysha was a whore when in fact she wasn't and she actually loved him.

Not sure if you guys have heard but George Martin has signed a contract to produce other shows for HBO. There is rumors a Dunk and Egg prequel series is planned. That would be amazing. It would be a more whimsical and comical take on the game of thrones universe.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Not sure if you guys have heard but George Martin has signed a contract to produce other shows for HBO. There is rumors a Dunk and Egg prequel series is planned. That would be amazing. It would be a more whimsical and comical take on the game of thrones universe.


Yeah, I've heard about it but I object
As much as I would love to see a new show based on George's work... when will the guy ever have enough time to sit down and work on "The Winds of Winter"??
It seems like the projects are just piling more and more up for him. I really fear that it will take him ages again to finish the book
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I'd much rather have Winds of Winter than another show but I'll take another show over no new book.

He writes so slow.. most writers take a year to write a book he takes 5
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