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Shipping, love triangles and wish fullfillment
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Shipping, love triangles and wish fullfillment Reply with quote

I count myself as a shipper but I was just thinking why so many have such a desperate need for their couple to 'end up together' on the show? Also I have a hard time envisioning what this would be and what could possibly satisfy those intense yearnings (lol)

For Jate and Skate both couples have 'ended up together' already on the show it just didn't work out so it is kinda a mute point. Haven't the best scenes already been in the past and how can one scene topple any of those?

If Jack and Kate were together in the final season and died together say.. would that mean Jate were 'endgame'? It wouldn't mean that to me anyway they were just together in the final scenes of the show.

Interested in finding out what would satisfy people and what they see as being the ending to the main triangle aswell as people's feelings on other ships on the show.
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thefilmchick
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moot point.

I would like Jack and Kate to be fired in a giant rocket towards the sun. Does that mean I want them to end up together? I guess so! I really dislike both characters, so for me the 'shipping' triangle resolves unsatisfactorily any possible way that it goes. However, I never bought Juliet as a shipping party either, although I liked her when she was creepy and suspicious. So none of the main ships work for me. I don't know, in Suliet's case, if that's a fault of the writers, though.

With regards to the writers in general: I think ships on this show are generally treated with a teenager-ish angle, rather than the angle that at least Jack and Sawyer (and probably Juliet) are pushing forty, on the show. If I, at almost thirty, acted the way these characters do, I would be relationship poison, and knowing that makes it impossible for me to take the bad writing when it comes to relationships with a grain of salt.

Banner aside (which is pretty! rather than me being a huge shipper: I have the Aislynn hardcore anti-shipper seal of approval, anyway), I always liked Sayid/Nadia. I think that works for me because it's handled more maturely, and because it's not shoved down our throats every other episode like Jate/Skate is. I also like the fact that both actually had to really face risks/death right from the start. For me, that works for the 'Sayid would sacrifice anything for Nadia' angle a lot more than the 'Jack/Sawyer would sacrifice anything for Kate' angle, because I don't feel we have been shown the latter in the same way.

(I also don't mind Sayid/Shannon for reasons we've discussed, Pauly: Put short, the deliberate choice that was made, circa 2005, by pairing up the Iraqi character with the uber-American blond girl. It was a short-lived relationship, though; given four more seasons, it's hard to say where I would be with that at that point, if Shannon's neediness and self-centeredness would begin to grate, if she didn't fully change, or if a change, if made, would feel forced and phony.)

I bought DesPenny as well, when it was introduced to us. The first flashback was a bit too maudlin with all the 'I love you, Penny' key-turning, but again, both are written as adults, not as thirteen-year-old girls (no offense to anyone who fits this description at present!). It is a quieter and less demonstrative relationship, which works a lot more for me considering DesPenny are both at least close to Jack/Sawyer/Juliet's ages.

As far as minor ships, I did not mind Rose/Bernard, but I won't argue that that relationship has been fully developed, by any stretch of the imagination.

So there you have my POV!
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Lost-majs
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... Well, I think it's natural for people to want their fave couples to have a happy ending No matter how amazing the couple's scenes in the past have been...
I might have loved PB&J's scenes in seaosn 1,2 and 3, but I'll never feel completely happy with their story, because I feel like they deserved a better ending. It makes me sad as a shipper, to see a couple that I've loved for so long, getting that kind of story... IDK, it's hard to explain I'll always believe that the moments they had together before Charlie died, were the most important ones. But Charlie's death is still a part of their relationship even though it isn't the most important part... Lmao, I suck at explaining stuff like this, but I figured I should give it a try
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nikkimonique
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For Jate and Skate both couples have 'ended up together' already on the show it just didn't work out so it is kinda a mute point. Haven't the best scenes already been in the past and how can one scene topple any of those?


It didn't work out b/c the writers wanted to keep them apart for the drama...If Jack and Kate or Sawyer and Kate had stayed a couple through the entire show I don't think it would have been as interesting. For me part of the fun of shipping is the anticipation of them getting together or back together. Its like Mulder and Scully everyone wanted them together romantically but if had actually happened in the show it wouldn't have been as good. I remember when Sydney and Vaughn got together so early in Alias I was kind annoyed b/c I wanted that sexual tension back.

As far as Lost. I don't think Skate makes much sense anymore after Suliet so I'm hoping for Jate and Suliet in the end. Maybe in the Sideways world if everyone ends up dying on the island? I'll be upset if Jate isn't resolved. I'd rather one of them die then them not to resolve it.
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Jemmz
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I might have loved PB&J's scenes in seaosn 1,2 and 3, but I'll never feel completely happy with their story, because I feel like they deserved a better ending. It makes me sad as a shipper, to see a couple that I've loved for so long, getting that kind of story... IDK, it's hard to explain I'll always believe that the moments they had together before Charlie died, were the most important ones. But Charlie's death is still a part of their relationship even though it isn't the most important part


*Sigh* I completely agree with you.

As a shipper, I would have LIKED for them to still be together in the end but if I had to choose between PB&J and Charlie living I would probably go for Charlie living! :S

And yeah, why does Kate have to end up with anybody? I'd be completely satisfied (if not, more) if she ended up being alone and independant. The Jate/Skate shipping for me ended a LOOONG time ago
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Debbie
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"it's not about the destination, it's about the journey"
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see a big red circle on my post now Kate lol For an anti shipper you like a lot of the ones I do

Nikki I'm interested in specifically what would be a happy ending though. I don't really think it's possible on the show the way it's going unless it's in the AU. And with Kate under arrest I think it's unlikely she is going to get away with it this time with killing the wrong guy and not being a hero from the plane crash. Really hoping they don't take us down that road again anyway because I found it highly convenient. I could totally see Suliet hooking up in the AU. I'd be kinda peeved if Jate ended up together but that's just because I'm not a fan of the ship

I have to ask the question if all you want is angst do you honestly truly care about these characters? I'm sure that's not all you care about ;/

Skate ending up together is not it for me. It has to be make sense. I'm pretty happy with what they have given us because their scenes have been amazing already.

Do you know if Sun still has the DS ring? I hope that's not the case because it would be lost now. As someone who isn't too fond of the ship I was pretty unsatisfied with Claire not getting Charlie's letter or the ring. I hope they resolve it.
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Brooke
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the writers forgot about the ring that Sun found. She should have left it there! (LOL Just kidding...kind of). Which I hope they don't, and if it is with Sun I hope it's re-established in the sideways.

With Skate/Jate it's about ratings. If you put Kate with Sawyer you will have some jaters who will stop watching and if you have Kate end up with Jack you are going to have some skaters stop watching. If it wasn't about ratings they would have put Kate with someone a while ago.
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nikkimonique
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well a happy ending for me would be Jate then but like you said, yeah it might not be possible..but I think that it can be if they want it to be. I can think of a bunch of ways for them to be together in the end.
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Brooke
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy ending for me would be Jate. I don't think Sawyer and Kate were the best for each other. Sawyer was better off with Juliet because he actually developed and grew up. He still had his edge but he let a lot of the past that was beating him down go.

I think the writers forgot about the ring that Sun found. She should have left it there! (LOL Just kidding...kind of). Which I hope they don't, and if it is with Sun I hope it's re-established in the sideways.

With Skate/Jate it's about ratings. If you put Kate with Sawyer you will have some jaters who will stop watching and if you have Kate end up with Jack you are going to have some skaters stop watching. If it wasn't about ratings they would have put Kate with someone a while ago.

As for Kate. I don't think we can assume she's either guilty or innocent. This isn't the same life, so what if she really is innocent? Assuming these people are living the same life has proved us wrong already, IE Sawyer's a cop. Sun and Jin are not married, they're seeing each other behind her father's back, he's her bodyguard.

I am bummed that they haven't given Claire a decent episode. I want to know what really happened to her when she was on the island alone.

Like what they did with the Other 48 Hours, showing Claire's life through those 3 years. We've seen it happen before, showing the same scene through another characters eyes. They should have done that with Claire.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and angst isn't all I care about...its just what makes it more interesting...but in the end I want them to work things out and get together and plus angst is real life. You're always going to have it in any relationship.
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Brooke
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the double post LVI froze on me and I don't now how I did the shorter post but it just happened.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You and Kemper cannot have arguments I fail to believe it *shakes head*

LVI's been bugging out for me a bit too :/
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Jemmz
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you know if Sun still has the DS ring? I hope that's not the case because it would be lost now. As someone who isn't too fond of the ship I was pretty unsatisfied with Claire not getting Charlie's letter or the ring. I hope they resolve it.


Ugh, tell me about it! I didn't understand why, if Sun still had it, she didn't give it to Claire while they were in that cage!! I really want Claire to get the ring, at the moment it seems like she's forgotten Charlie completely now I was rewatching Greatest Hits and that scene where Liam gave Charlie the ring, it was so important to them. I'd hate it if it was lost again :S
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blackwolf1480
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jemmz wrote:
Quote:
Do you know if Sun still has the DS ring? I hope that's not the case because it would be lost now. As someone who isn't too fond of the ship I was pretty unsatisfied with Claire not getting Charlie's letter or the ring. I hope they resolve it.


Ugh, tell me about it! I didn't understand why, if Sun still had it, she didn't give it to Claire while they were in that cage!! I really want Claire to get the ring, at the moment it seems like she's forgotten Charlie completely now I was rewatching Greatest Hits and that scene where Liam gave Charlie the ring, it was so important to them. I'd hate it if it was lost again :S

I second these points, although I never got the sense that Charlie and Claire were ever "in love", just had great affection towards each other. Their relationship didn't seem deep enough and neither one ever voiced "I love you." I don't believe you have to say it to confirm it but I still never got the feeling they did, plus every other couple did say it to the other. But judging by the scenes of them together, I still don't think they loved each other. I want Claire to get the note as some sort of "closure" and the ring to pass to Aaron, who Charlie said "I love you" before his sacrifice. I always felt Charlie was closer to Aaron than Claire because most of the things he did were more for the baby than his mother, but that's just me. I still support PB&J all the way. Maybe for the finale all the ghosts will become visible to everyone and Charlie and Claire will have their moment
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