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Questions about technique...
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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: Questions about technique... Reply with quote

Do you mark out the beats to the whole song first thing, or do you mark beats in sections as you go? (Or do you even mark them at all?)


Do you pull all or most of your clips into the timeline first, and then go back and arrange/edit each clip, sync with the beat, add effects transitions, etc. afterward? Or, do you go clip by clip?

I'm just curious to know what people do and what works for them. I usually go clip by clip and I'm wondering if that's not the best way.

Thanks!

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littleton_pace
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: Questions about technique... Reply with quote

eloramoon wrote:
Do you mark out the beats to the whole song first thing, or do you mark beats in sections as you go? (Or do you even mark them at all?)


It depends, i never usually "mark" them as i can see them on the timeline. Sometimes, if its heavy beats i'll split the song thre so I know where the beat is, but mostly I just do it as I go.

eloramoon wrote:
Do you pull all or most of your clips into the timeline first, and then go back and arrange/edit each clip, sync with the beat, add effects transitions, etc. afterward? Or, do you go clip by clip?


Again, it depends. If it's a storyvid, they usually come out scenes first; sometimes even before I have a song. But if its an effects vid, i always edit as I go otherwise i might forget and then not have an area with effects by the end.

There's really no 'best way' to do it. I've done it in all the ways you've suggested, it just depends on the vid and how you're feeling while making it. Sometimes I can't be bothered with beats, sometimes I really wanna harness them
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soapbubbles511
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never mark beats... personally I don't get the point.... I just look at the beats and fiddle with the clips as I add them.. most of the time clips need to start transitioning a little before the beat to hit the beat anyway... and then if there's a bit with a lot of beats I just replay it over and over and I can see if something is off... test render if Vegas is being freeze-y... but the easiest way for me is just to cut clips and move them around and watch it a couple times over to make sure its hitting the beats properly

and I always put all my clips on the timeline first, but not over the song... well first, before I even open Vegas I listen to the song seriously dozens of times, getting an idea in my head of what clips I'm looking for... and then once I open Vegas I put all the clips down past the end of the song... lately I've been vidding Glee quite a bit... and I look through all 13 episodes and clip out what I want before I ever put a clip down over the song... same thing for any show, I go through all the episodes/clips I'm even considering using first

then I usually start placing clips with a lyric that has really been speaking to me... the one that has been screaming out for a certain scene... and then I do coloring, it really helps me get into the feel of the vid... before I have done any clean editing/clip placement, I add any colors/textures that I want on the vid... and then I edit that bit completely... all the beats, all the effects, all the transitions... I'll get that little section pretty much completely done... and then move on to another section, usually just another lyric that has been speaking to me... and then once I do the lyrics that have really been speaking to me I fill in the rest... if its a really linear story I'll start at the beginning after that or else just start filling in between the bits I've already done...

and I seriously watch each little bit I've done about ten thousand times... part of that is procrastination of starting the next little bit... but I watch what I've done over and over to make sure I like it... and sometimes after a while of working on another bit I'll see something that needs to be tweaked

so that sort of my general process... but even that I can point to other vids of mine that I've done differently... ones that I started at the beginning and just worked my way through, even ones I'd mapped out scene by scene before I'd even opened Vegas... ones that I placed all the quotes and then fiddled with the video... it kind of depends on what I'm feeling with the video... but if there's a part that's really speaking to me, that I really know what I want to do, I just do it...
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Uruviel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't "mark" the beats in the song, I go strictly by the time codes.

As for clips, I go clip by clip. I usually plan out my vid in writing first and then find the clips that I noted as I add them onto the timeline.
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DJC Productions
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I go beat by beat and clip by clip. I never start with my clips in the timeline. I start with a general idea of what I want to do for a vid and I always know what my begining and ending is gonna be. Then I just work out the rest as I go.
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Charlies_Innocence
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mostly what I do is put in the clips I want for maybe, like, one line of the song, then I'll go back and edit the clips to the beatin that section before moving on. But I almost never mark the beats, there are usually too many, and I'd rather do it as I go anyway. It's easier for me.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always mark my beats, via sections. I usually mark one whole verse, or like the musical opening, then move on to the chorus or next verse, whichever. If it's a really beat heavy song then i'll break it down even further than that.

I usually go clip by clip. I usually never go into a vidding project with much in mind except for the fact that I want to vid that song, to that couple. I usually just skim through my clips until I find my scenes. It's probably harder that way, but I'm not one to think over a vid much, unless it's an AU vid, then you almost can't do it without thinking it over---alot.
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Aislynn
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done all of the above at one time or another, lol!

I tend to do just whatever seems to work best for the project as I start working on it. I used to write out possible scenes to the lyrics and basically try to storyboard the whole vid but I found that until I was really looking at the clip in question, I wouldn't know if it would work or not.

So now I tend to just work on it organically: I start with whatever section of the song I "know" first and plug in all of the clips that I'm sure of. I generally go ahead and set the beat use at that time but leave off anything like coloring or extra effects so that I don't start bogging Baby Vegas down any sooner than I can help. I fill in the timeline as things come to me, rather than starting at the beginning and working on through to the end. That way I don't get (as ) stuck if I come to a part at, say, :12 that I can't figure out. I'll just hop down to the next part I do know and come back to the tricky parts later.

I keep an overall idea of my story in my head as I work, trying to determine clips that will help advance that as I go along. If possible, I get the end in as soon as I can because I want to be able to see what I'm working towards (after all, if the end doesn't work, then I've set up a whole vid for pretty much nothing ). Then it's all just a matter of going through and connecting all of those spaces on the timeline together with clips that hopefully lead the story from its beginning to its end.

As for marking the beats, I generally start by just eyeballing things and seeing what seems to work as I'm doing those early sections. I like to keep my beat use consistent: if I do [this] when the music does [that], then I want to do that all of the way through the vid, in other words.

As I get more clips on the timeline and Vegas begins to bog down and can't preview things correctly anymore, then I start relying on markers. I mark the specific times I'm going to use the beat (generally you don't want to use every beat unless you're really doing that for a definite visual -- I find that you have to pay attention to the atmosphere and emotion you're trying to achieve, sometimes it's better to sacrifice a few "lesser" beats in order to not make your vid look like one long rolling quick cut ).

I generally just mark the section I'm working on so I can sight-edit the clips for that section since the previewing has usually stalled by this time. A lot of times it's necessary to have your effect or transition happen slightly before the beat because appearing with the beat will make it look a bit off. *shrugs* It just depends on the song and the style of the vid so you have to play it by ear. I spot render each section so I can see exactly what it's going to look like and keep working with it until the beat use is what I want. Then I delete the markers and move to the next section (deleting the markers makes me feel like I've accomplished something, lol! ).

I have some vids where I don't have to use the markers, I have some where I have to start using them almost right away. Any time I'm going to try moving a section from where it's at to see if it looks better in another part of the song, I always mark the beginning and end before I move it so I can get it back in that exact spot if I decide it looks better where it was.

I have had one vid that was a multi-fandom one that had a ton of source footage to work with and so Baby Vegas started muffing up right away. I found that because the story was complicated and required a lot of "on the fly" tweaking, I didn't edit things in to the beat so that I could move the sections around without feeling like I'd just wrecked all of the work I'd put into beat use editing. It makes it difficult to preview the vid because one part of me is going, "GAH, NO BEAT USE!" *dies* but, like I said, I really needed to get the story set up first and I needed to have most of the clip choices made before I could determine the best order for things to happen in.

In this case then, the beat use editing as well as coloring and effects/transitions editing will be one of the last things I do. Generally, though, I like to put the beat use in as I go because it sort of makes the vid work better for me when I'm looking it over.

I hope that all makes sense! Basically, there really IS no right or wrong way to go about it. Some people work best linearly, starting with clip 1, going to clip 2, clip 3, etc. Some people work best in a nonlinear fashion like I prefer. It's really all about what feels best to you. And what feels best to you also may change from one vid to the other! So I'd say don't be afraid to try out different ways of doing things until you find what seems to work most comfortably to you! ♥!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJC Productions wrote:
I go beat by beat and clip by clip. I never start with my clips in the timeline. I start with a general idea of what I want to do for a vid and I always know what my begining and ending is gonna be. Then I just work out the rest as I go.


Yep thats pretty much what I do although I don't always have an ending in mind for my AUs. Sometimes I do but then sometimes it comes to me as I vid. Or I will have an ending in mind but the story takes a different turn and I have to end it differently.
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Lost-majs
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... I'm actually one of the few who almost always, starts by the beginning of the song and work my way to the end I don't exactly know why, lol It just sems easier for me to do it that way. I've tryed the other way too, where I go and edit the parts of the song that inspire me.... Buuuut, then when I've done those parts, I just end up being all uninspired for the rest of the parts

Anyways, I always start by listening to the song for a long time... I usually go and find the lyrics at some website and then while listening I read the lyrics. I tend to get more ideas when I do that... When I just listen to the song I focus more on the mood and atmosphere of the song ( and that's good too - but I want to focus more on the atmosphere in the song when I'm actually vidding and not trying to get ideas ) ... But when I read the lyrics and listen at the same time, a lot of ideas comes to mind... I notice some lyrics that I wouldn't have if I didn't
Once I've listened to the song for ageees, I go into vegas and start from the start of the song. But I leave the first 5-10 seconds of music and don't edit them... Cause usually I wan't to use some text at those parts where it says what song I'm using, who I'm vidding and so on... I find that part pretty boring to edit so I leave it and do that when I've done the rest of the video
And then I just start vidding, lol I find the clips that I think will be usefull for that little part of the song, and then I listen to the beats and place the clips and effects, the way I want... I also makes sure to watch the little part I've made, once it's done, to see if it looks ok. If it does, I move on to a new part and do the same thing... And that's pretty much it, for me!
And like others have also said, I think it's a very good idea to watch you're video a lot of times It makes you notice the mistakes you might have made, but if it's good, it also gives you inspiration to continue! Sometimes when I watch the parts I've just made, I might think "Oooo NO, I have to fix that" ... And that's only good cause then you've made sure that you don't have to think that, when it's on yt for everyone to see.
And if it's all perfect when I watch the part I've made, I'll be "Yayyy, awesome - this video will be so good!".... And I get more inspiration and I want to finish it more, than I probably would have if I didn't watch it
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eloramoon
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Thanks everyone for responding!

I really enjoyed reading through everyone's vidding process, and I think this is a useful resource for people who are still getting their vidding bearings.

I was most interested to see that not a lot of people mark beats. I guess I just tend to use songs that don't lend themselves too well to just going by the visual of the music track. Sometimes I mark from beginning to end, and then watch to make sure the line hits the marks on the beats.

I do the same thing Maja does, where I pull up the lyrics of a song and then listen/read along a bunch of times. The last few videos I've actually pulled the lyrics into word, and then I make a one column/several row table and I insert the lyrics line by line (or multiple lines--however it divides out best). Then, I go through and make notes above each lyric, or for each row. If there is a series of beats at the beginning or end or throughout the song, I mark them out like //// / wherever they fall in the lyrics and then write in what I want to do with them.

I typically pull my clips in as I go, but I also apply effects as I go so as I near the middle of a song, Vegas gets pretty angry, so I end up doing a million spot renders. I actually keep a full-render, spot-render, and mini-spot-render .wmv file for each of my vids, and then just save over as necessary.

Thanks for replying, everyone!

If anyone else wants to add anything, please do!
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OvariesOfSteel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've enjoyed reading all these responses. I swear, I would love to sit down next to a more experienced vidder than myself and watch the process unfold.

Sarah, I think my process is most like yours. Maja, yours second. (They're quite similar, I know.)

As for using markers-my last project, which still sits unfinished, I tried marking the beats, and there are SO MANY. So when and/or if I pick it back up, I'm forgetting that plan and just going back to my old way. No markers. I drove myself crazy!
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Sheree
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I listen to the song over and over and over.

Then I find the lyrics. Even if I understand all of them listening to the song I need to have the lyrics. I print them out and make notes of what clips I feel will fit. I try and go through the entire song and brainstorm on paper before I even open up the editing program. Not all my ideas stay the same. Sometimes when I go to use a clip - I find another one that works better.

For me I have the song in the timeline right away. And then work from the start to the end. Going in order of the song.

If I want to add any effects over the actual clips then I wait and do that at the very end. It just makes it easier for me. And my editing program doesn't give me the finger ... but for any transitions I put them in as I go. Since that does effect the timing of the clips for the song.

And I just try and go with the emotion of the song and try my best to keep with the timing/beat. And do my best to interpret the lyrics.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mark my beats if it's a song where the beats aren't as easily shown as the heavier beats.

I usually go through my vids playing it by ear; my vids are usually all over the place because I often change things with them. I rarely have an ending; but some times I'll know the ending before I even know how to start the beginning.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't seen this thread before. This is really interesting to see different people's techniques.

When I do a video where I want to focus on the beat, I always mark each beat of the song first. In songs with changing tempos, I label the beats so I'll know which is a slow or a fast beat section.

I always sync my clips to the beat as I'm putting the clip onto the timeline. If I don't sync it up to begin with, I get really confused and it throws the whole thing off.

I don't lay my clips down in order from the beginning of the song to the end. I used to when I started vidding, but now I start with the lyric/clip match ups that I know I want to use. I save the areas I'm not as sure about for last. I do alot of clip rearranging as I vid, until I find the perfect fit.

As far as effects and transitions, I usually add them all at once at the end of my project. I find that adding effects all at once gives them a more even look through out the video than when I add them as I go.

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