mistojen
Advanced Vidder
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 1699
Location: Corning, NY
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 Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| thefilmchick wrote: | | But why would you be afraid of it, when that is (to my mind) at least part of the whole reason why the site exists? To me, the whole anonymous vote-without-comment thing defeats the purpose of the site, is unhelpful, and often leaves people at a loss as to how something can be improved. |
Why would *I* be afraid of it, or why do I think anyone would be? I'm afraid of it because I've been burned a lot for it in the past.
| Quote: | | "Reparations" are dumb, anyway. (Not saying your reason is dumb, but the whole idea of it.) I mean, we're all mature teenagers-and-above, right? (Yeah, I know, we probably aren't all as idealistically mature as that.) We should be able to take criticism, and aware that if we put something out there, it will bring about different reactions. |
Oh, I agree they're dumb and I get that you're not insulting my reasoning, but you'd be surprised just how many people are immature jerks hiding behind professional-looking visages. I've met hundreds of them in my lifetime and a few on forums like this as well as on here. So, while we'd like, ideally, for LVI to be filled with mature teenagers and adults...it's not. There is no place like that in the world, unfortunately  We SHOULD be able to take criticism, and I for one THRIVE on it, I'd rather you tell me "ehhh this vid just didn't do it for me, there were too many/not enough/weird-looking effects and the story was confusing" than "hey, this was really awesome!" Now, don't get me wrong, I LOVE my ego to be stroked, but I prefer a critique over a flattery any day. ANY day. But...I'm in a very small minority in feeling that way, you know?
| Quote: | | But criticism is one of the main reasons art is public - to invoke reactions in other people. The same theory can be extended to vidding. If a vidder seems to be on a tear to get back at others via reparations, then staff can, should, and would deal with it. |
I'm with Cin on this one...a lot of people don't consider vidding an art, they consider it a hobby and they just want positive feedback. There's no way to sort out the "artists" from the "hobbyists" and keep feelings from being unnecessarily hurt by confusing the two. And asking the staff to deal with vidders having bitch fights a la reparations back and forth is a lot too much to ask, I think, personally. That's like asking them to be babysitters.
| Quote: | | We should have an option to see the reasons then, if they're entered as anonymous votes. That way, the votes would still be anonymous but more constructive criticism could be gained (and it would be easier to monitor the "THIS SUXX0R! I HAET THIS CHARACTER SO U GET A FAIL!"-style comments, as they'd be public.) |
I agree that perhaps more vidders who are voting should hide their name and maybe not their reason, but that option is there and if people, like myself, aren't taking it, then that's their choice and it's their privacy that would be invaded if LVI chose to have the option for a vidder to over-ride the voter's decision to keep everything anonymous. Also, like the Council has said...they can see the comments even if WE can't, so they DO monitor those type of ridiculous and unhelpful comments. What's the point of showing them to the vidders when it does nothing for them? I trust that the CMs are keeping tabs on that and I'd imagine they have a system for dealing with it, even if they don't tell us (which, I don't feel they should have to, personally.) Anyway, just my thoughts.
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avatar: Plastic!Winchester Theater by anteka @ LJ; icon by me
sig by AlcoholicPixie |
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Hobbes
Council Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 11208
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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I like this quote:
"Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the frog dies of it."
-- E.B. White
Kinda fitting to art as well.
The thing is... well, actually, there are a lot of things - all covered by people who said them perfectly before me already , so this is just another thing...
anyway, this other thing, that I mention only because I think it's an interesting thing to add that I doubt anyone else has thought of, is: Why is it that the "bad" votes have to explain themselves...? Or for that matter, why do people have to explain their votes at all...? Do you have any idea how hard that can be? It could take a long while, in fact. Especially when you know that whatever you write is going to be chewed up by the person you voted for. So then you try to make it as accurate and to-the-point as possible, and then suddenly the hour you set aside to catching up on site vids is gone and all you've done is wrote why you didn't like some vid that the vidder isn't even going to put the effort into changing . Soon, you get sick of having to do that, and you're sick of people whining when you vote low, and you find yourself actually drawn to just giving them golds all the time just so you won't have to waste all that time thinking up a good response - because nobody whines when you just give them a gold but don't give a reason. 
I gotta say, this seems to me like less of a debate on the merits of anonymity, and more of a debate on the merits of criticism at all . Because I think, without anonymity, you'd find that people are even moreso drawn to keeping their votes high - just because it's easier. And for some reason, nobody ever complains when some random newbie votes high in an otherwise-low vid. And yet that seems to happen much more often than not. e.g. http://lostvideo.net/viewvotes.php?viewvid=4304
But removing anonymity wouldn't help that really. As Ais said in her first post, "no matter what we do, disable anonymous voting, write up more rules, etc. we can't make somebody give concrit on a vid". And removing anonymity is no exception. All it would do is disrupt things, and/or make people not vote at all. It would be like... shining a flashlight at a swarm of bugs. They're moving along just fine, getting their work done, their foraging system intact. Then you turn on the light and they start scattering! "Bwa!" "Get away from the light!" "Run!" "Lets get out of here!"
Also:
| Quote: |
I agree that perhaps more vidders who are voting should hide their name and maybe not their reason, but that option is there and if people, like myself, aren't taking it, then that's their choice and it's their privacy that would be invaded if LVI chose to have the option for a vidder to over-ride the voter's decision to keep everything anonymous. Also, like the Council has said...they can see the comments even if WE can't, so they DO monitor those type of ridiculous and unhelpful comments. What's the point of showing them to the vidders when it does nothing for them? I trust that the CMs are keeping tabs on that and I'd imagine they have a system for dealing with it, even if they don't tell us (which, I don't feel they should have to, personally.) Anyway, just my thoughts. |
Yeah, just to add: before anyone suggests we disable the "Hidden" option and make it so just the person's name is hidden when they choose "anonymous" - therefore making it so the comments are always visible by everyone and they can get their valuable constructive criticism: Already thought of that one. That was actually my initial plan for the voting system, before one main problem was brought up to me: namely that if we did that, it would become very easy for people to pick up on others' writing trends and date of posts, and pinpoint who wrote the comments, especially if the person voted a lot. Essentially, without the option to fully hide one's input, their anonymity would be in jeopardy. And that shouldn't be happening. |
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