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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: Beat Use--Second Opinion? (6x03 spoilers!) |
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Me again! Since this one isn't a contest entry, I can post it up here for opinions. What does this ensemble video need? I strongly suspect the answer is 'more beat use in the verses,' hence the title, but I'm curious! Thanks for any thoughts--especially those before 4p EST (since I leave work between five and six, and would like to submit before then)! (Please note: Video contains footage from 6x03 and the season premiere.)
waiting_0001.wmv - 16.89MB
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Aislynn
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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Location: Sawyerville, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know if I'm too late to be of help but I just had a look at it.  I love that effect with the clip slanted in from one side or the other of the screen, it makes a very cool and unique visual! The song has a really strong, definite beat so you pretty much have to either decide you're going to try to acknowledge every one or ignore them. Ignoring them is a viable choice if you don't want to have to either cut or change effects, coloring, etc. with every beat.
There were a few times when I thought that a major beat was missed but, when I watched it again, I saw that you were just acknowledging a different part of the music than I was expecting, which is, again, a legitimate way of handling things. When the strong beat changed rhythm, I was sort of expecting it to be acknowledged in some way but that may have been a deliberate choice on your part, I don't know.
However, I find if I'm concerned that there IS something missing in my vid, that usually means that I'm not really 100% satisfied with the vid just yet. You have a great concept here and great lyric interpretations, so my advice would be to give yourself another chance to look it over again and see if there's anything nagging at you that you'd really like to fix before you submit it. If you're feeling that something more needs to be done with the beat, for example, then you'd probably be wise to heed that feeling, just because you're really the final authority on your own work.
There's nothing I hate more than when I don't take the time to fix something, then I'm stuck looking at it for the rest of the vid's life. Because even if you go back and fix it later, most of the time people won't come back and watch it again. It's like the old saying, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."
Hope that helped in some way!  |
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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 4030
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Aislynn wrote: | | Don't know if I'm too late to be of help but I just had a look at it. I love that effect with the clip slanted in from one side or the other of the screen, it makes a very cool and unique visual! |
Good; glad that was effective! I liked the way it turned out, anyway.
| Quote: | | There were a few times when I thought that a major beat was missed but, when I watched it again, I saw that you were just acknowledging a different part of the music than I was expecting, which is, again, a legitimate way of handling things. |
Which specifically jumped out at you, though? Even if it was different and not 'bad' per se, I'd like to know where it jarred nevertheless. I did do a couple of switches on the back beat, mainly because it felt too robotic with the 'thump-thump . thump-thump . thump-thump . ' for the whole time.
| Quote: | | When the strong beat changed rhythm, I was sort of expecting it to be acknowledged in some way but that may have been a deliberate choice on your part, I don't know. |
In the second part of the verse, right? A la "They'll probably pull his hands off when they find out his name, and then they [switch] shut down the power all along the line", "Now he'd like to go to Spain or somewhere like that, with his [switch] two-tone Bible and his funny cigarettes" and "They had been trying to get married since they stole the wedding dress. [switch] You may see them drowning as you stroll along the beach." I just want to make sure I'm hearing the same thing you are, since I think the explode transition into the chorus is enough of an acknowledgment of the other beat change.
| Quote: | | However, I find if I'm concerned that there IS something missing in my vid, that usually means that I'm not really 100% satisfied with the vid just yet. You have a great concept here and great lyric interpretations, so my advice would be to give yourself another chance to look it over again and see if there's anything nagging at you that you'd really like to fix before you submit it. If you're feeling that something more needs to be done with the beat, for example, then you'd probably be wise to heed that feeling, just because you're really the final authority on your own work. |
Thanks for the concept/lyric notes (two things I actually don't think I'm bad at! I'm going to wait until Wednesday at this rate, anyway, but I'm not sure where else to go with it. I just have a bunch of ideas that have been back-burnered that are coming to the fore, and enough spare time with nothing else to do thanks to stupid crutches situation that I have the time to vid for a bit!
| Quote: | | There's nothing I hate more than when I don't take the time to fix something, then I'm stuck looking at it for the rest of the vid's life. Because even if you go back and fix it later, most of the time people won't come back and watch it again. It's like the old saying, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression." |
Oh gosh, you're telling me. I know I should be more of a perfectionist, but when I do vid, I just want to get the song out there, you know? If I wasn't so influenced by song choice/lyric use, I think it'd be easier for me to be a perfectionist on the video-making end of it, but since so many of my videos amount to 'LOOK HOW PERFECT THIS SONG IS, FOR PETE'S SAKE,' I tend to be less detail-oriented than some.
| Quote: | | Hope that helped in some way! |
It did, thanks! Sorry for the novel in return, but hell, I'm supposed to be having office hours right now (haha), so I still don't have anything better to do.
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Aislynn
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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Location: Sawyerville, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| thefilmchick wrote: | | Aislynn wrote: | | There were a few times when I thought that a major beat was missed but, when I watched it again, I saw that you were just acknowledging a different part of the music than I was expecting, which is, again, a legitimate way of handling things. |
Which specifically jumped out at you, though? Even if it was different and not 'bad' per se, I'd like to know where it jarred nevertheless. I did do a couple of switches on the back beat, mainly because it felt too robotic with the 'thump-thump . thump-thump . thump-thump . ' for the whole time. |
:56 (the hatch door flying through the air) has a flicker on it that seemed to be responding to that drumroll but then the next section right after that (Bernard grabbing Claire and pulling her out of the way) is still "under" that same drumroll section but doesn't flicker like I would've expected it to. So to me that felt like the drumroll was suddenly ignored for that little bit right up to the way it crashed (right on the beat, good job ). That's fairly nitpicky-ish since it's such a small section but since you asked about what jumped out at me, there you go. Also, there might BE a flicker on it but because of the lighting of the scene and such it could be just making it difficult to see.
At 1:00 when we go back to the "skewed in picture" section again (which is once more awesome, btw ), I expected the picture to change or something to move with at least one of those heavy thump-thumps. However, when I watched it again, it does seem to be going with the guitar runs. But those thump-thumps are SO in your face (so to speak ), then it's like ignoring the large (thumping) elephant in the room a bit. You certainly can do it, though, because the rest of the vid is showing you are paying attention to the music. But it does run the risk of you having some of your viewers think you just missed the beat.  (I tried using some alternate beats in one of my previous Lost vids and I had some comments saying it had great beat use and another saying I'd missed ever beat. )
| thefilmchick wrote: | | Aislynn wrote: | | ]When the strong beat changed rhythm, I was sort of expecting it to be acknowledged in some way but that may have been a deliberate choice on your part, I don't know. |
In the second part of the verse, right? A la "They'll probably pull his hands off when they find out his name, and then they [switch] shut down the power all along the line", "Now he'd like to go to Spain or somewhere like that, with his [switch] two-tone Bible and his funny cigarettes" and "They had been trying to get married since they stole the wedding dress. [switch] You may see them drowning as you stroll along the beach." I just want to make sure I'm hearing the same thing you are, since I think the explode transition into the chorus is enough of an acknowledgment of the other beat change. |
At 1:16 there's a large cymbal crash that isn't acknowledged. Some people, however, don't like to do the standard "white flash on a cymbal crash" but, like many cliches, it's become standard because it's effective. I like the flicker you used right after that to 1:20, it goes well with the electric guitar sound (and it showed me that you're reacting more to the guitars than the drumbeats, which is valid, if not traditional).
1:29 is in the section you mentioned above, right before the "two-tone Bible" (which I see you used Sawyer raising up the diary on the beat, nice ). The drums start up heavy again there, however, which made me think you were going to respond to them in some way. However, they go for quite a while and if you started flickering the image or some such, it's a looooong way to go (to 1:36) like that, so again, I can see why you might make the choice just to ignore it.
Like I said, the key for me was to realize you weren't using the traditional percussion beat use as much as going for reacting to the guitars. And when looking at it that way, then you're definitely responding correctly. However, you might want to go through and note any cymbal crashes or major drum beats and put some sort of effect/transition on them, even if you don't want to cut with every heavy thump-thump all the way through the song.
Again, hope that helps a bit! |
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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: |
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You mean the bassline, right? To me it's more of a hook to the song than the thump-thump is, which is why I went with it for the skewed-picture bits and for a lot of the rest. I like how serpentine it is, so to speak.
:56: I can fix the Bernard/Claire bit easily enough. Thanks!
1:00: The skewed cards were because I didn't want to pile on a lot of images in the skewed bit right after people had just taken in Richard: Claire: Sawyer: Kate and before they had to take in Sun: Hurley: Walt: Miles. I can fiddle around with the timing of Charlotte's hands there and see how it goes, though.
(Also, do the curling/flying away picture for the guitar runs after 'waiting for the end of the world' and the close-ins on 'dear Lord' (Charlie: Sayid) work effectively?)
1:16: I don't mind adding something to the thump-thump 'two-tone Bible' et al., but I need to find something that's not jarring and obvious. A lot of the usual effects seem too obvious when held over a 7-second section, like you cited, particularly since the drum beat is so obvious!
I am a sucker for constructive criticism! Would you mind looking at a second draft sometime? Let me know!
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Aislynn
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Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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Location: Sawyerville, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| thefilmchick wrote: | | You mean the bassline, right? To me it's more of a hook to the song than the thump-thump is, which is why I went with it for the skewed-picture bits and for a lot of the rest. I like how serpentine it is, so to speak. |
Yep, indeed, that was what I meant. People tend to mean "percussion beat use" when they say beat use because that's by far the most standard. But I consider other forms just as valid. However, people will definitely notice if you ignore the "big" percussion moments like cymbal crashes and drumroll flourishes.
| thefilmchick wrote: | | (Also, do the curling/flying away picture for the guitar runs after 'waiting for the end of the world' and the close-ins on 'dear Lord' (Charlie: Sayid) work effectively?) |
Yes, they most definitely work very well! I thought I'd mentioned them both, sorry. 
| thefilmchick wrote: | | I am a sucker for constructive criticism! Would you mind looking at a second draft sometime? Let me know! |
Sure, feel free to PM me! Fair warning, though, that it sometimes takes me until the next day to respond, just depending on what's going on with things in RL. |
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thefilmchick
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Well, chances are I'll be snowbound tomorrow, so it likely won't be posted on Wednesday at this rate, haha.
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