Lost Video Island

Ally · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: Rating by yourself?

what woud you guys think of the idea that we all could jugde the vids?
Yesterday I found out that about 246 out of 360 vids are a council pick.
the council Members also say, that they just jugde by " like it"

so I would ask for a system where every user is able to vote for a vid one time
like a Poll in every vid thread and every user can give 1-5 points
if a vid get's more than, 40 or so points it get a mark, like now the CP vid
because for 40 points, 8 people have to see the vid AND have to give this vid 5 points

or like None,bronce, silver, gold, crystal
none from 1-10 points bronce from 11-20, silver from 21-30, gold from 31-40 and crystal for 41- xxx

this is just two ideas! so tell me what you like about it and what not ^^
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crazymol4588 · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject:

I'm not speaking for the other judges or anything, but that might be a little too complicated. I like the idea of everyone getting to vote, but as of now we have a system that works well enough. Plus we vote on certain criteria, and I think some people might just vote highly for it because they like the song or something.

Maybe we could try to set up something different...?
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Ally · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject:

i don't think this has to be so difficult

guess there must be a way

ou kno, if you click on a vid, you're getting on he side with the link to the forum
what if yu make a rating thing there?
and if you make a direct thing between the rating and the pic, like now the CP is, so that it chances by itself it would work

I think there must be a code out there that can do this
maybe one of my friends could make something like that
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Ally · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject:

OK I just asked a friend of mine and he said that this is VERY easy and that he think that a Code for this ( HTML or BBC) should be to find in the net

I guess I'll explain it again

soo
I'm talking about putting this

in this side

so everybody can vote for it

and I just continue talking about " None (0-10), bronze(11-20), silver(20-30), gold(31-40) and crystal(41-xx)"

so if 3 people give this vid about 5 points, there automaticly apears a mark that says " Bronze"
and if they continued to vote for the vid, it automaticly changes into " silver and gold and so"

you know what I mean? you jsut have to put this into the script and finsih oo
s
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lostcalier · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject:

I'll be honest this is an idea that we threw around a bit while coming up with the plans for 4.0. Ultimately that idea got scratched because we felt it would clutter up the site (I believe at the time we were contemplating a star system). E also pointed out that it could turn into a nightmare to try and introduce that coding in with everything else we have going on with the site. At the time an extra step that we demed unneccessary due to everythign else we were trying to accomplish in that time.

I think that having everyone vote on the videos would be a cool idea but in reality it would be more of a nightmare then anything else.

I noticed the number ratio you gave of couil videos to non-council videos. It's not real proportinate at the moment but you have to remember that all the council pick videos from January to May were listed with council pick seals going into 4.0. It's going to take us a while longer to really build up a proportionate number between council picks and non-council picks.

Another thing is that I'm sure a lot of people wonder how we pick the videos that get counil picks and it's actually a lot more complicated then some would think. We have specific criteria that we look for and yes I'll admit some of it does have to do with the judges personal preference in song choices. To counter that I encourage all of you to check out council member videos to see that we all have very diverse tastes. No two judges have the same likes and dislikes in music. But even then that is only a very SMALL part of the final decision. Things like clairty of story, editing cleanliness (i.e. no extra frames, no unnecessary transitions that take away from a video), central theme, if audio is used then the clarity and relevance of that audio. There are just so many different thing sthat we look for in making our decisions. We've all had moments where we've had to make votes we didn't want to make. Ultimately it comes down to what is the best for LVI and our vidding community.

One of the things that makes LVI unique from other vidding sites is we use our council pick seals to encourage people to put forth there best effort into there videos. A lot of sites out there you will find that you get sub-par quality from vidders that might have extrodinary talent. They just don't have anything to work towards and that causes them to give less then there best. I'm not saying this is the case for every vidder but I have seen it happen. It's like everything in life, you need to have a goal to push for. We give Lost vidders a goal of a council pick seal to push for.

I put "LVI Revolutionizing Fan Video Making" in my signature for a reason. That's what I want LVI to do for the vidding community. I want other sites out there to see the quality of videos we have here and push there vidding communities to achieve the best level possible. I hated rejecting peopels videos in early versions of LVI and I still don't like sticking a non-council pick on a video but everytime I see a vidder improve I get rewarded and it makes those tough choices worth while. I've seen so many sub-par vidders improve to amazing levels. Now I can't say for sure that our system encourages those improvements or if it was a natural evolution in there skills but I'd like to think that we gave those vidders something to push for.

My fear in doing away with that or even using it and implementing a fan voting system is there would be no real order to the chaos. Some people would have the opportunity to vote several times for one video while being unfair to the other video. Plus we archive over 300 videos now so to be fair visitors to the site would have to go through watch and vote on all 300 plus videos. In concept it is a great idea (one I had thought of at one time as well) but their are just to many obsticles in it's way to make it happen.

We want LVI to make a difference in the vidding community. Whether we will has yet to be see but imagine fan video making raised to the next level with extraordinary videos being produced. That's something that people will notice. Something that will be recognized and maybe give fan art a higher respect in the internet world.

I don't know if any of this answers this question of fan based voting systems. I hope it does but I'm still interested to see what you guys think on this subject. Ultimately the decision to add something like that to the site wuld be Enchirito's. I value his opinion and respect his dedication to LVI to much to override any cosmetic decisions he makes in regards to the site. But if you guys can deliever a powerful enough argument I can take it to my fellow council members to discuss the matter again.
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Ally · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:34 pm Post subject:

To be honest I don't agree with you

first I didn't really get WHY this woud be a nightmare

and second, why so you think there is nothing to work for? guess we shouldn't work to get a council Pick although I did
I want to work to mke a reat video and I want that everybod thinks so, and if enough people think that I made a good vid, they will vote for me and my vid
and to reach 40 oint i just HAVE to make a good vid, don't I?

also it should only be possible to vote only one time for a vid

it also can happen that CP members vote unfair, they are humans too don't they? maybe one of them has a bad day and so he votes not like he would normaly

and the new ones don't have to go and vote for all 300 vid, but if they want to they can
the new ones also hve to go to see the 300 vids and comment for them or?

and I really like the idea that there are more possibilitys for one vid!
now it's like " not so good vid = no Council Pick" " good and very good and above vid = council pick"
but with my system you can have a crappy one, a bronze one, a silver one, a golden one and a crystal one

I know a lot of movies on this side, and some of the vids just deserve to be more than a CP because they are just so perfect

jus tell me what you think about my comments ^^ I hope I made them clear because I'm not always sure about this, because english is not my mother tounge XD
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lostcalier · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject:

I won't argue that council members are just human. That's kind of undeniable (however we do wonder about Nate somedays...lol). We have a lot of stress put on us because of situations like this. We know that some peopel are going to disagree with our system and that has stressed more then a few council members out. You can ask Jake or Charmax what goes into being a council member and just how much we really do have to do on a daily basis.

In regards to someone having a bad day. If a council member is having a bad day or doesn't think he pr she can give an honest vote I encourage them to not vote on any video until they can do it with a clear mind. We've had videos come in from friends that we've had to vote against because we didn't think they were good enough. Now thats a tough thing to do but something we have to do. I can't begin to explain what goes into being a council member but for what the they go through in the name of LVI is beyond anything I could have ever asked of them. I don't know how else I can defend our voting system then to say it's not just based on "we like this" or "we hate this" there is so much more that goes into it. The stuff I outlined in my last post were just some of the things we look for but not all of them. And Contest voting is ever more indepth in terms of what we look for.

Would we love to have some of the stress removed from us with a fan based voting system? Sure, it would be great to have one less stress in my life but I don't want to compromise the uniqueness of LVI. So many sites have voting systems like that and I'm afraid we would start to look like them. I don't want LVI to be like anything else out there. I want us to be different and look different.

As for my comment about thsat being a nightmare. I beleive in everything being as fair as it can be made. I think that adding a fan based voting system now would take away a lot of credit from older videos that get less viewers. Then we'd be dealing with those people being felt left out or worse being made to felt discouraged towards video making.

I know not everyone pushes towards a council pick and some people could probably care less about it. Soem people may even del it as pointless but that is there decision. But for those that do strive for it that coucil seal could mean the difference between an extra hour or two of work and a thrown together quick submission. For those people I don't want to take away that goal. Above all LVI archives videos but we go the extra step to provide more to our community. Warren and other council members can tell you that I'm constantly throwing out new ideas for things we could add to the site. But we have a checks and balances in the council room in that everyone gets a say and soemtimes the ideas just would not benefit the site in the long run.

Now, what I would see as a reasonable compromise is if a particular vidder wants they could contact us and we could attach a poll to there particular video topic that way every vidder that wishes to have that peer based vote can get it. It's not the perfect answer to this question of peer based voting but it's one solution.

I'm still sticking strong to my statement that I will not override Enchirito's decision. If he decides that this is something he could easily AND fairly incorporate then I would support the decision to add that element to the site. But before it could even get to that stage of Enchirito making a cosmetic site decision it'd have to go through the coucil. I may pay the bills but this site is run by a group of people that all get a say.

At the same time I do my best to make sure people who visit the site get a say. Which is why I admit I understand your argument here and I admit that this was an idea we threw around for a while but beyond that it would have to go through the council before anything else could become of this.

I would be interested to hear other peoples opinions on this matter. Ally and I can go back and forth till pigs fly but it would be two people voicing thre opinions. I'd like to hear not only from Ally by from other vidders on what they feel about this topic. I'm sure there are people that support both sides of this and all of your voices matter in making the decision to persue this for LVI. What I ask of you is what I ask of the council is make your decision not based on personal preference or peer talk but based on what is ultimately the best for the site and our vidding community.
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Ally · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject:

Hmm I'm glad you really thought aout that alredy!
and what if would use both?

CP AND member voting?
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Hollywood · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:13 pm Post subject:

l'am actually quite happy with the way the voting process is right now. l know l wouldn't wanna vote on anyones vids simply because l'm afraid of hurting peoples feelings. Well that and plus l can't make up my mind about anything. LOL.

So yeah l'm a no to the self-voting. But thats just my stupid opinion. LOL.

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Hobbes · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject:

Lostcalier did an amazing job of outlining what needed to be said here already... but I'll just chime in with my two cents on this issue too. Though keep in mind that if you want to read my opinion on this, it includes every one of Lostcalier's posts too

I myself have probably brought up this idea a couple times in the council forum, but as has been pointed out to me a few times by the others, and my own revelations, it would just really be an unfair thing.
Let me make these reasons into points:
- people would not be obligated to remain subjective. Even assuming that most people did, there's still the option for those who want it. One person who doesn't vote subjectively could sway the entire voting system drastically.
- the most popular doesn't necessarilly mean the best. Tough to believe, yeah. But just take a look at some of the humor videos, and tell me if some of those deserve to have three pages of comments while in the meantime Charmax's videos remain basiclaly untouched?
- having a lot of friend would mean your videos are good... plain and simple!
-most people on this site have NOT seen all, or even most, of the videos here. One "good idea" in a video could have been a complete copy of another video's idea, and few would realize it.

Ally · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject:

ook Although I have headache I read it

any for all I talked aout it to Lostcalier and we made up a plan of pure evil for that while thing *muahahah*

ok.. maybe not THAT evil
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Enchirito · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:32 am Post subject:

Well Ally, I actually really like the idea of public voting. But, as has been proven on many other sites, it just doesn't usually work well on the internet. For all the reasons Hobbes mentioned.

And, as the webmaster, let me just say that integrating IP restricted voting into the site would be fairly difficult. Not impossible, but don't think it's as simple as dropping some radio buttons on the videos page! lol.
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