Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 11208 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:28 am Post subject:
Quote:
But seriously, this episode is THE RETURN OF LOCKE. How is this bad?
Because it's the final blow saying that the Locke we know up to this point is worthless, doesn't exist, and was just a mistake. A mistake that the writers, in their infinite power, can fix in one poorly-contrived little episode. It shows their weakness and ability to bend over backwards to please people and make Locke likeable again, and take us all the way back to a clean slate, Tabula Rasa, the Season 1 Locke. Except by reseting his character, everythign that's happened to him, everything we've given a shit about in the past year, means nothing. And if it can mean nothing this easilly, then why should we ever care about anything this show throws at us again? Suddenly, anything that happens - any death, and hatch explosion = has even less point than it ever had before, because even the writers don't care.
Nobody can deny that this Locke is a great Locke. It just scares me how fast the old one can be thrown down the river, and makes me ashamed of why I even bothered to invest my time giving a shit about him.
Season 3 is shaping up to be good. Things are all set up in "super-dee-duper" mode and the pieces are falling into place. So well, in fact, that it feels like a different show. And maybe it is. But if it is, that means the show we loved just got cancelled. For better or worse is still yet to come...
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 35782 Location: Sawyerville, USA
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:39 am Post subject:
*gives Locke fans a cookie*
Because there is NO problem that can't be solved with cookies. It's a scientific fact.
(What? You were expecting intelligent conversation or something? How long have you people known me, huh? It ALL comes back to the cookies for me. The cookies and the Southern dimples. )
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 35782 Location: Sawyerville, USA
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:45 am Post subject:
Hobbes wrote:
Quote:
But seriously, this episode is THE RETURN OF LOCKE. How is this bad?
Because it's the final blow saying that the Locke we know up to this point is worthless, doesn't exist, and was just a mistake. A mistake that the writers, in their infinite power, can fix in one poorly-contrived little episode. It shows their weakness and ability to bend over backwards to please people and make Locke likeable again, and take us all the way back to a clean slate, Tabula Rasa, the Season 1 Locke. Except by reseting his character, everythign that's happened to him, everything we've given a yes, I censored this word about in the past year, means nothing. And if it can mean nothing this easilly, then why should we ever care about anything this show throws at us again? Suddenly, anything that happens - any death, and hatch explosion = has even less point than it ever had before, because even the writers don't care.
Well, I can't blame you for feeling so strongly about it. This is kinda how I felt when Sawyer went through his frog-squishing-new-sheriff-in-towning phase. But at least it didn't last all season!
However, the thing with Locke is that I don't see it so much as them "resetting" him to Season 1 Locke. I feel like he's on a journey and that obsession with the Hatch was just part of the road he's on. He started off with this unwavering faith, then he focused it all on the hatch because if the hatch didn't MEAN SOMETHING, then Boone died for nothing. That was what I saw in him at the end of S2. "I was wrong" covered a lot more than "I was wrong about the button not doing anything." He was wrong and it had cost Boone his life (or so his guilt was telling him).
Though I do agree, that was waaaaaaay too long to have dragged it out. There was a great deal about S2 that felt out of kilter to me, as if the timing was being forced to go too slow or too quickly. I didn't hate S2 or anything, but it just felt like it missed so many things! Like it came close to this potential and it just kept missing the ball.
Okay, so I couldn't leave without trying to say something more profound than "cookies?"
Last edited by Aislynn on Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 11208 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:50 am Post subject:
Thank you for the following
Quote:
*gives Locke fans a cookie*
Quote:
Well, I can't blame you for feeling so strongly about it. This is kinda how I felt when Sawyer went through his frog-squishing-new-sheriff-in-towning phase. But at least it didn't last all season!
(Exactly!)
Quote:
However, the thing with Locke is that I don't see it so much as them "resetting" him to Season 1 Locke. I feel like he's on a journey and that obsession with the Hatch was just part of the road he's on. He started off with this unwavering faith, then he focused it all on the hatch because if the hatch didn't MEAN SOMETHING, then Boone died for nothing. That was what I saw in him at the end of S2. "I was wrong" covered a lot more than "I was wrong about the button not doing anything." He was wrong and it had cost Boone his life (or so his guilt was telling him).
That is just profound, and I never really thought about it that way, and I really do hope you're right about that, because that... that would make it all okay again .
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 35782 Location: Sawyerville, USA
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:03 am Post subject:
Hobbes wrote:
That is just profound, and I never really thought about it that way, and I really do hope you're right about that, because that... that would make it all okay again .
I live to give you hope in Locke again, you know...
Thanks! It's hard when writers take a character you really like and they suddenly seem to lose all continuity. It sucks. I'm not really liking their lack of continuity on a bunch of things right now but I'm trying to ignore it and just enjoy whatever good comes about. Locke returning to his Hunter persona is one of those "good things" in my book. But I'm hoping that he'll be a wiser Hunter this time around.
And dang, they need to give him a love interest! I know you and E just gagged at the thought but what can I say? I live to ship! Having somebody he really cares about on the Island with him -- if Helen's still around, she can parachute in, I don't care! -- helps me to connect with him. That was what I liked about the scenes he had with Claire in S2. A lot of people loathe the thought of a "romantic" ship between the two, but I would've been happy just to have them have a nice, caring friendship, just so long as there was somebody he cared about, you know?
But, barring that, I'll still be pleased if he gets to take a more leadership role this year and mounts a (hopefully well-planned! ) rescue attempt. Anything that lets him step up, armed with everything he learned in S2. And he did learn things in S2, in my opinion. Now, let's see him apply them back to his S1 persona and maybe S3 Locke will REALLY kick some booty!
Well, I can't blame you for feeling so strongly about it. This is kinda how I felt when Sawyer went through his frog-squishing-new-sheriff-in-towning phase. But at least it didn't last all season!
Ais has helped with her explanation--> exactly how I felt during/after that episode. And I must admit, for a long time after "DO No Harm"...Now I get it Hobbes! I do! I didnt want to admit this before (at serious risk of being called a "pessimist") but I will say it now---> since the season finale of Sn 1, I had been actually *dreading* LOST being on...it was a weird push and pull- like the Kramer "...yet I could not look away..." Like I wanted to watch, but it physically hurt at the same time. It was, like Hobbes said, getting to the point where I felt ashamed at putting so much into the show as a whole, and they were just screwing it up...and that pressure was so much, that I couldnt bear to watch anymore (including me yelling at the TV ).
Anyway, to get out of weird seriousness mode, there are many that are probably reading this and going "damn girl, its just a show!"- I know that it is, but Im on the council...one of the main reasons I kept watching. But its a show that started strong, hooked me, and has been through a lot that I dont particularly care for. And Im sorry, Im not going to sit back and say "wow every single episode is awesome, it really is! You guys are mean!" because I dont do that about anything, anyone, anywhere.
Again, cookies for all. Ench---> its good to hear from you again!
Ive said it before and Ill say it again---> HAHA with the ONE tree frog all of a sudden!!! (needed a bit of levity). _________________
"You are just an encyclopedia of weirdness." ~ Supernatural
When I first saw this ep just this morning I was like "wtf? what the hell is going on?!?". I strongly suggest everyone goes and watches it a second time, because when I did...it became one of the best episodes ever.
One thing that's weird here is a lot of people are now expecting season three to have either "season one Locke" or "season two Locke"...uhh....it's season three. He's not gonna be either of those Lockes, he's gonna be completely different...he went more over-the-top with his "Fate" thing in this episode than he ever has before...maybe now he's gonna be a complete hippy in this season, or he could take Jack's place as leader. Every character changes every season - think about Charlie, in season one after quitting drugs he was a really nice guy who cared about people, but in season two that went overboard and he went insane even without any drugs. And Sawyer made heaps of friends then suddenly unexpectedly became more evil than in season one. There's no way any characters will ever "reset" to their old ways.
The Desmond thing is gonna ROCK. Do you guys realise the possibilities this has? Hurley knows he can see into the future now, unlike with Walt where people never really knew for sure. _________________
It's official - Aislynn is 36. Add a 0 to the end of that and you've got a full circle.
It's not the simple fact as hating this episode... because I didn't hate it. It's just complicated. They used every episode thus far of Locke's background to create this really mysterious, awesome character... and they just threw it all away here, as if forcibly done...
The simple question we should ask ourselves is : Why did Locke fans not enjoy this episode, as much as they should have?
And far as which Season is better, I don't see it that way, All Seasons were awesome (I look at Seasons as a whole). Season 1 was spectacular. And Season 2 was also awesome though many people may not think so..(my favorite so far)
So you see it is complicated and hard to explain.. but can be summed up as: We have just come to expect more from LOST, especially more so now since it's Season 3! And although I did like the premiere and the last 10 minutes of the 2nd episode , And still many parts of Episode of this episode.. I just expected.. more.
Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 2211 Location: Billings, MT
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:
Hobbes wrote:
Because it's the final blow saying that the Locke we know up to this point is worthless, doesn't exist, and was just a mistake.
No way! Locke is still Locke. Characters are going to change, completly static characters are no fun. I honestly think in season 2, the writers just wanted Locke to have a test of faith and fail it, just as a way of strengthening the faith of his faith based character. So that happened. It was not worthless just as any experience a person has is not worthless, it changes who you are. That said, i do think the writers could have had that same basic senario happen in a much more interesting way. But what they ended up doing got the job done and I don't think they broke Lockes character in the process. Just kind of diluted him. IMO the only time Locke was not Locke was that weird episode where he punched Charlie in the face. That was the only truely odd behavior where it seemed the writers needed to bend him a little to much to serve a different purpose.
Hobbes wrote:
Season 3 is shaping up to be good. Things are all set up in "super-dee-duper" mode and the pieces are falling into place. So well, in fact, that it feels like a different show.
Not really, to me it just feels like season 1 again. Remeber before the hatch when things were happening at a reasonable pace? The Claire kidnapping, Ethan hunting and all of that? It just feels like the season 2 style lost got cancelled, and i for one am glad since i thought season 2 started out great but ended up going nowhere up until the finale.
Aislynn wrote:
However, the thing with Locke is that I don't see it so much as them "resetting" him to Season 1 Locke. I feel like he's on a journey and that obsession with the Hatch was just part of the road he's on. He started off with this unwavering faith, then he focused it all on the hatch because if the hatch didn't MEAN SOMETHING, then Boone died for nothing. That was what I saw in him at the end of S2. "I was wrong" covered a lot more than "I was wrong about the button not doing anything."
Thats pretty much exactly what i was trying to say. lol. _________________
First time in Lost episode discussion here, but well, I just watched it...And of course episode totally had some weird moments.
- What I was hating in last final is when Charlie went to Claire after the whole explosion and was even don't care about what was happened with Ecko, Locke and Desmond. Sorry, but it was just unloggical.. And in this new episode was the same He asked about Ecko, only when saw Locke , but before that he was happy sitting with Claire
- Hatch exploded, the hole was like meteorit was crashed on a island...and yeah..everybody saved...Locke can't speak...Desmond naked (but I have admit it was hot and funny - favorite moment from the whole episode )...Ecko was taken by polarbear
- Locke flashback..I was't reading any spoilers for this eppy. So I actually was sure that it would be about "his accident"..And it's just annoyed me in the end that it was't. I start to think, that two TOP lost secrets (Locke accident and Jack BLOODY tatooes thing) would be revealed only in final episodes of season 5...
-Animation bear, I think even one my computer obssesed friend could do smth like that It's not the first time when I noticed such things on lost, I remember I saw some weird effects in last Sayid flashback, it was in the end of the episode,with him standing alone, the Iraq background was just weird maked.
-First time I could't understood Hurley "look"at the end, but then rewatched his scenes with Des. He could predict future it's interesting, but too many mythology on the show already. I have so many questions about the whole show, but sometimes I started to think, that this show only about guestions, and not about answers..It's kind funny already.
- Two new characters intro..I saw kristin report somewhere and she says the sex scene in Jack tent was cut. Totally not right decision
What I love:
-Dream (really was interesting to watch. And skate flirt there ) I love the operator work there.
-I totally don't feel disapointed about Locke character, he is now the character that I used to like. And I don't think that it bad that it was quick changing, it's right that it happened now, after his understanding that he was wrong and that button really meant smth.
Every character on the show was changing, and it's normal that Locke had some creepy moments in season 2 (it's just would't be right if he always would wise through 2 seasons,and not changed). So, now I'm really pleased, the wise and filosophy Locke back, and in future he would't do the same mistakes that he did in the end of second season (hopefully).
All I have too say now that I like this episode, and all weird moments was really fun to watch and admit
and..next episode...probably would be my favorite
Spoiler:
POOR Sawyer , but I'm sure he will be fine, and all skate stuff would be AWESOME
P.S.my longest post ever and sorry for a bad english _________________
Welcome Savanna, always good to have another weird commentator in here:
Quote:
Hatch exploded, the hole was like meteorit was crashed on a island...and yeah..everybody saved...Locke can't speak...Desmond naked (but I have admit it was hot and funny - favorite moment from the whole episode )...Ecko was taken by polarbear
LOL! Totally with you on this one. You would think that after the weird sky turning colors thing and the giant explosion and horrible ear-drum bursting noise, someone would even just be mildly curious on what happened. I mean even if not curious, just bored enough..Im here in "civilization" and Im bored to tears right now!!!
Quote:
-Animation bear, I think even one my computer obssesed friend could do smth like that It's not the first time when I noticed such things on lost, I remember I saw some weird effects in last Sayid flashback, it was in the end of the episode,with him standing alone, the Iraq background was just wei
I have to admit I thought that too about the bear, but I let it go...I had too many comments already. Season 1 bear was pretty decent, but...
Savanna, youre the only other one Ive seen who brought up the weird background:
So were just slipping into another dimension, right?
And anyone else thinking of the scene with the wolf in Neverending Story?
_________________
"You are just an encyclopedia of weirdness." ~ Supernatural
Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 896 Location: NOWHERE! BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject:
The polarbear animation really stuck out and looked apalling for that second, but I ignored it. The effects have really been so-so through the whole show, even since the beginning! I don't mind it that much. It's only secondary to the story.
Oh and for the record I'm with Aislynn, I really want to see Locke have someone to care for on the island/love interest. If Locke/Helen worked, then I'm sure they could probably find a way to make that work. _________________
sig by IslandofMystery
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 35782 Location: Sawyerville, USA
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject:
Distress Signal wrote:
Oh and for the record I'm with Aislynn, I really want to see Locke have someone to care for on the island/love interest. If Locke/Helen worked, then I'm sure they could probably find a way to make that work.
Yay! A fellow "Give Locke Somebody To Care About-er!" Which has to be the worst group name ever! But the sentiment is still true (though, I swear, I really can hear the sound of Enchirito gagging... ).
Rocksiren wrote:
And anyone else thinking of the scene with the wolf in Neverending Story?
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I didn't hate S2 or anything, but it just felt like it 
.
-- helps me to connect with him. That was what I liked about the scenes he had with Claire in S2. A lot of people loathe the thought of a "romantic" ship between the two, but I would've been happy just to have them have a nice, caring friendship, just so long as there was 
)...Ecko was taken by polarbear 
It's not the first time when I noticed such things on lost, I remember I saw some weird effects in last Sayid flashback, it was in the end of the episode,with him standing alone, the Iraq background was just weird maked.
