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xgene
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Rocksiren wrote: | | NO NO way, Season 3 in my opinion is a lot better than season 2, but thats just my opinion. |
I think it's leveled right now. For me season 2 was good the first few eps and then was a little weak all the way until "Two for the Road". I think it suffered from the additional characters so it took away from the original cast being better developed. Season 3 is good thus far but season 1 is still my favorite all around season (everyone's flashbacks/island life).
| Quote: |
Again, I think Locke's flashbacks wouldve been a lot more poignant in "Do No Harm", |
To me that doesn't make sense, unless you're saying they needed to rework the whole island experience cause I believe Locke was only shown at the hatch when it lights up (right?). Not to mention change the title since it's a direct reference to doctors 
| Quote: | | the only thing it served was showing Mr. Friendly (sorry I dont remember his name). I thought it was a cult, Locke is gullible enough for that... |
LoL  As much as I would love to agree with that, I don't believe Locke would fall for joining a cult unless he was willing. But yes, this flashback suffered from being used to only show Mr. Friendly, I totally agree, it was just...meh 
| Quote: | But I dont know.. . somehow this episode disconnected me from the LOST world.. (I think I sound like an idiot right now).. It was an okay episode but not what I have come to expect from LOST, and somehow I believe they are ruining the character Locke on the show... he was once "the great and mysterious one"
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I conqur, though I believe it started in the middle of the second season, topping off at the finale with his infamous words "I was wrong" (as he is dumbfounded with his own idiotic actions). Sorry Hobbes, had to bring that up again  
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Rocksiren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I can totally see Locke getting involved in a cult...hes a perfect target! For all his strength, he is a bit gullible. His need for love, to belong etc. Sorry, I put Sayid to shame in my ability to detect lies, so maybe Im not being fair. |
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Noj
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Season 3 is doing good. First few eps of 2 were excellent though.
Anyway. I liked this ep, gave me some faith in Locke again. And Boone! Woooo!  Hope to see a lot more of him. Some really excellently filmed stuff, like the airport and the tent part. So was chuffed with this ep 
As for Paulo and Nicki, ugh. Had about 3 lines from each of them and they're already annoying
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Distress Signal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| xgene wrote: |
LoL As much as I would love to agree with that, I don't believe Locke would fall for joining a cult unless he was willing. But yes, this flashback suffered from being used to only show Mr. Friendly, I totally agree, it was just...meh |
Actually, that wasn't Mr. Friendly at all. That was a totally different actor in the flashback. They have nothing to do with each other.
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Aislynn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Distress Signal wrote: | | xgene wrote: |
LoL As much as I would love to agree with that, I don't believe Locke would fall for joining a cult unless he was willing. But yes, this flashback suffered from being used to only show Mr. Friendly, I totally agree, it was just...meh |
Actually, that wasn't Mr. Friendly at all. That was a totally different actor in the flashback. They have nothing to do with each other. |
That keeps messing me up because the two remind me a lot of each other, or something... Mr. Cult Man seemed like he was being "showcased" enough that we ought to know him from somebody else's flashbacks, if nothing else... |
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Rocksiren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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xgene
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Argh!! That's what I thought at first but then I read everyone was saying it was Mr. Friendly, and refusing to watch the epsiode again so soon, I hopped on board that bus. Haha, looks like I could join a cult seeing how guillible I am
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mistojen
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| xgene wrote: | | Quote: |
Again, I think Locke's flashbacks wouldve been a lot more poignant in "Do No Harm", |
To me that doesn't make sense, unless you're saying they needed to rework the whole island experience cause I believe Locke was only shown at the hatch when it lights up (right?). Not to mention change the title since it's a direct reference to doctors |
I think I know what they mean...like, for example, I totally understand and appreciate that "Do No Harm" is a direct reference to doctors, and it was really great to have Jack flashbacks for that particular episode, considering he was the one working so hard to keep Boone alive, I can see where others are coming from when they say it would have been more poignant for that to have been a Locke flashback episode, considering the fact that, while he was entirely good intentioned and meant to "do no harm," his actions directly resulted in the death of a young man. Know what I mean? Maybe I'm way off.
Someone said that they like Season Three less than Season Two, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have to hop on the bandwagon and disagree. I pretty much hated S2. To me, it was like "boring, boring, boring...november sweeps: SHANNON DIES!...boring, boring, boring, boring "OMGWTFWALTONIM?!" boring boring boring boring MICHAEL JUST KILLED TWO PEOPLE! boring boring SEASON FINALE." This season, though I'm admittedly a little bored with the Sawyer/Kate stuff because it's been not nearly as emotionally brutual as the Jack stuff so far (looks like THAT's about to change, though...), I feel, like others have said, a lot more at home with. I feel like we're back to the season 1 feel where it's more familiar and exciting. There's more going on, because the time line isn't taking three or four episodes to cover one day worth of events.
...can I just say that I love that this is one of the first episode discussions in which I feel like people aren't just skipping over what I've said? I really appreciate being included, guys Thank you!
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Hobbes
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: |
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LOL thank you, thank you *bows*
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Haha. Nikki and Paulo got the worst entry scene ever. It's like they were just there, complaining about Jack not being there. I've seen non-famous redshirts get way better lines. |
Wait... I haven't been keeping up with spoilers - are those two supposed to be main characters now? That's kinda a sad way to go about putting them in really sad...
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Also, I felt the polarbear was a little contrived- they were like "we need a danger, something for Eko to be saved FROM....oh yeah, we did have polarbears in the first season, didnt we?". But I did instantly think of Paul |
Totally.
| Quote: | | You know, I should have been excited about this episode.... it's Locke, for freakin' sakes.... but I wasn't. And I'm not excited now (with the exception of T's performance, which, regardless of how low Lost can possibly go, will still be the same level of quality). |
Too true. Thank God for Terry O'Quinn
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In fact I just didn't like this ep as a whole, and reading other reactions all over Lost boards, I don't think I've ever been more depressed this morning than I've ever been, even in the lowest of season 2. It's almost personal for me, which it shouldn't be.
Sorry to rain on anybody's parade, but does anybody else think that if this keeps up, season 3 is actually worse than season 2? I'm actually starting to miss that season...... |
I'm feeling the same way, with the exception that aside from this episode, Season 3 has been really good to me... infinitely better than last year's first eps anyway. Even Jin and Sun seem to be pulling their weight. But unfortunately, I expected a lot out of this ep, what with Locke always being a major swinger in this show, and this ep just let me down, mostly because they tried to fit too much into too short a time. And it ALL comes down to flashbacks, once again .
But overall, I still think S3 is looking good. We just need... another climax. This ep was a denouement.
But I am getting realyl tired of everyone treating S2 like it was some post of awfulness. It was just as good as the first in my opinion, just in different ways.
| Quote: | | I thought it was a cult, Locke is gullible enough for that... |
lol believe it or not, I agree . But I'm with xgene, I doubt he'd fall for it unless he was willing to put himself out like that and accept that it might be a trick.
| Quote: | | "boring, boring, boring...november sweeps: SHANNON DIES!...boring, boring, boring, boring "OMGWTFWALTONIM?!" boring boring boring boring MICHAEL JUST KILLED TWO PEOPLE! boring boring SEASON FINALE." |
though I did like S2 - that is still just about the perfect recap . S2 kinda seems liek they had just a bit too little plot to fill the whole season, so they lengthened it out (which explains that awful Rose/Bernard ep, etc  ). They wanted to end with the hatch blowing, but they didn't know what to put in between. I wonder just how they'll end this season .
| Distress Signal wrote: | | xgene wrote: |
LoL As much as I would love to agree with that, I don't believe Locke would fall for joining a cult unless he was willing. But yes, this flashback suffered from being used to only show Mr. Friendly, I totally agree, it was just...meh |
Actually, that wasn't Mr. Friendly at all. That was a totally different actor in the flashback. They have nothing to do with each other. |
Thanks for saying that so I didn't have to go "wait, Mr Friendly?" And scour the ep
So yeah, that means the flashback had absolutely no meaning whatsoever.... well, isn't that a nice change of pace . All it did was say Locke's a farmer .
| harpreetd wrote: |
Oh and Hobbes, I think I know how you feel and I'm with you pal. (If that even helps just a little |
lol yep, I think you are I agree with just about all you said. 
After watching the ep again, I'm not as dissappointed... they got Locke to where I want him to be, in the end. Though I just wish they would have done it differently, like instead of having him wake up holding Eko's stick, decide this is the moment he needs to make a sweatlodge that seemed like just a really cheap and lame way to go about bring Boone in. If he'd gone after Eko, or even selfishly cried or wahtever, I'd be fine, but it just seemed really weird and impractical for Locke to do that.
However, I did really like that vision, particularly the mouthing of "I'm Sorry" to Boone. I really liked how they handled that part, because right after that he mouths something else that looks, to me at least, like he's saying "I didn't mean for -" at which point Boone says "Don't worry John, you'll be able to speak when you have something worth saying. That is just the right way to go about that, because it satisfies me, who believes Locke really was sorry, and didn't mean for Boone to die, yet satisfies the people who disagree with that (though yet again, leaves it ambiguous).
Overall, there were just a lot of new methods the writers used in this ep that were just weird.... and that might be why I was so put off at first. I am still sceptical whether they really understand Locke like I do, but either way, I think I'm ready to accept this ep. The worst thign abotu this ep was still the fact that it wasted all that buildup from season 2 (and a lot of season 1) - everything Locke did with the hatch and with Boone, and just did a light-speed dump of it all, making him appologise to Boone, and Eko, and himself, for losing his faith, yadda yadda. They took all that conflict that they worked so hard to create, and just wasted it, like they've done every conflict. Ana Lucia, Shannon, everything, it never ammounts to anything. All it does is leave a dead Boone, Shannon, and Hatch.
Perhaps if they'd cut the flashbacks, there would have been more time to reap the fruit of nearly two seasons of Locke buildup, but they didn't, and so they crammed it all into one episode. Maybe that means next ep we'll have Super Locke, out to save the day, but in the process all us Locke fans have been though has been for nothing. I always hoped that the whole hatch thing would help change Locke for the better, and yet now all of it has just been wasted so he could have a monologue with an unconcious Eko. It was just done badly. Really badly. And I don't like that. it makes me nervous...
The truth is, all of the characters we know are on shaky ground . This Locke doesn't feel quite right. I don't trust the writers with him. And this has been happening with a lot of the characters, namely Sayid from last episode (and Paul, I can assure you, that was not a Sayid-worthy plan. He deserves a lot better than that.) They're all in danger
Maybe it's time to stop trusting Lost so much. Or maybe it was that time a long time ago... ug... |
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Rocksiren
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| mistojen wrote: | | xgene wrote: | | Quote: |
Again, I think Locke's flashbacks wouldve been a lot more poignant in "Do No Harm", |
To me that doesn't make sense, unless you're saying they needed to rework the whole island experience cause I believe Locke was only shown at the hatch when it lights up (right?). Not to mention change the title since it's a direct reference to doctors |
I think I know what they mean...like, for example, I totally understand and appreciate that "Do No Harm" is a direct reference to doctors, and it was really great to have Jack flashbacks for that particular episode, considering he was the one working so hard to keep Boone alive, I can see where others are coming from when they say it would have been more poignant for that to have been a Locke flashback episode, considering the fact that, while he was entirely good intentioned and meant to "do no harm," his actions directly resulted in the death of a young man. Know what I mean? Maybe I'm way off.
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Yes actually thats exactly what I meant...
Hobbes hits the nail on the head, and I am with him 100% as far as the "vision" goes. Sweatlodge seemed a little contrived, polar bears seemed a little contrived. For the record, I never thought he "meant" for Boone to die =)
I had to admit Hobbes I laughed when he said "when you have something worth saying!"
| Quote: | | everything Locke did with the hatch and with Boone, and just did a light-speed dump of it all, making him appologise to Boone, and Eko, and himself, for losing his faith, yadda yadda. They took all that conflict that they worked so hard to create, and just wasted it, like they've done every conflict. Ana Lucia, Shannon, everything, it never ammounts to anything. All it does is leave a dead Boone, Shannon, and Hatch. |
I have to be with you on this one as well- Boone better be in more, it was like really fast. But Boone as the "Christ-like figure" of the story has to be the one to forgive, I suppose.
I agree about the "revival" of Locke...and Ive been saying since Sn. 2, you dont HAVE to have flashbacks- let it go, you spent that nickel!
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Hobbes
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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lol I agree with all your agreeing , including how everything was very contrived,
| Quote: | | I had to admit Hobbes I laughed when he said "when you have something worth saying!" |
so did I Though probably not for the same reasons . Partly I laughed because I knew the Locke "dislikers" would be having a field day at that line and partly because it's totally true, and I'm willing to accept that. Even if he didn't mean for it to happen, that's still no excuse, and isn't even worth saying. He needs to let it go, accept it, and move on. So it really does help having this conversation with Boone (at least in my mind), to finally set Locke out.
I forgot who said this (I think it was Aislynn though). I can't find the quote, but I was meaning to comment on it as soon as I saw it:
| Quote: | | (paraphrasing) "I'm pretty sure that whole Locke in the hatch thing was just to hide from his guilt over Boone" |
totally profound, and I think very likely. Something I definitely agree with.
(and now show yourself Cinderella! What fair maiden fits this glass quote? )
| Quote: |
I agree about the "revival" of Locke...and Ive been saying since Sn. 2, you dont HAVE to have flashbacks- let it go, you spent that nickel! |
you know, before they were just annoying. But now they're getting to a point where cramming in a flashback is actually hurthing the island time. They're having to cram stuff that shouldn't be crammed. I don't like this.
Oh, I just figured out the statement to sum up my whole thoughts on this ep into one little package!
From Locke, I expected closure. Closure for a season of Lost that was... shall we say... rocky, at least on the Locke side. But I didn't get it. Whether it was because of the confusion, the flashbacks, or the weirdness, I didn't get that feeling like that entire season had any point at all - which I'd been hoping it would since the rough times began. That is why this episode let me down. It cleaned up the "mess", but didn't let us wallow in it and enjoy the process. A storyline was just concluded with one hastilly-scribbled paragraph. And even if I accept it here, I can't trust that any other death, struggle, conflict, or anything on Lost will ever have a point to it again. It'll just be a hasty kill, and a quick coverup afterwards... This ep has begun to make me stop caring.. and that is a sad sad thing.
Last edited by Hobbes on Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:38 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Aislynn
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Aislynn wrote: |
I really AM excited about Locke finally dealing with Boone's death and his part in it. I think his preoccupation with the Hatch all last year was his way of avoiding his guilt. But he and Boone were friends and it wasn't right that the writers kinda dropped the whole topic, IMO. Glad to see them picking it back up! |
Was that the quote? It was spoilered, which made it harder to find. If that was indeed the quote you were looking for, that is! 
If so, thanks for making me feel all profound! If not, well... "Dude, that's all I got." |
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Distress Signal
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Hobbes wrote: | | I'm feeling the same way, with the exception that aside from this episode, Season 3 has been really good to me... infinitely better than last year's first eps anyway. Even Jin and Sun seem to be pulling their weight. But unfortunately, I expected a lot out of this ep, what with Locke always being a major swinger in this show, and this ep just let me down, mostly because they tried to fit too much into too short a time. And it ALL comes down to flashbacks, once again . |
That's probably what's depressed me the most all day. I was played, just like Locke, into thinking that all Locke episodes can be infallibly great. Going into a long-winded flashback tail of my gullible faith in Locke episodes, if I may:
Walkabout - bloody fantastic.
Deus Ex Machina - BLOODY FANTASTIC!!!
And when season 2 started and after Adrift aired, I was so sickly disappointed in Lost that I wanted to quit watching the show. But of course that's hard to do when your whole family is still watching it. So I hung on another episode with low expectations, and, lo and behold, Locke's episode made me feel Lost again. It pulled me out of the rut of thinking the show had jumped the shark. So from then on I took Locke's hand whole-heartedly and comfortably assumed that NO Locke episode could ever be bad, even if the season was bad.
So naturally when Lockdown came along, I was really excited, thinking 'this episode is SO gonna be great, it's Locke!'.... only to be wrong. The flashbacks weren't good (why make a contrived plot of his dad conning him again into some heist?), and the card-playing story made me fall asleep. I was really angry while watching it. Although to be fair, the highlight of it was Locke getting pinned under the door.
So this time around I thought, 'well maybe his flashbacks won't be great, but Locke's island stories are always interesting. They always progress in the plot.' .....only to be more wrong. And usually, in the case of Lockdown, I wouldn't like it but many others would. But this episode is different.
So maybe next time around I'll be wrong when I assume 'well, at least the worst thing won't happen in his episode'........
| Hobbes wrote: |
Maybe it's time to stop trusting Lost so much. Or maybe it was that time a long time ago... ug... |
Yeah, I think it's time to assume nothing from anything in Lost. When I think about all these good characters that have developed through season 1, and season 2, I think of newbie young writers who were hired to write the episodes and have NO idea how to write Lost, so they ruin the characters that we've seen built up so much. But I guess there's a line to draw between a TV show and real life...
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Hobbes
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Was that the quote? |
It is indeed Ais! thanks for saying it!
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Yeah, I think it's time to assume nothing from anything in Lost. When I think about all these good characters that have developed through season 1, and season 2, I think of newbie young writers who were hired to write the episodes and have NO idea how to write Lost, so they ruin the characters that we've seen built up so much. But I guess there's a line to draw between a TV show and real life... |
True that.
Sorry guys. We all just posted at the saem time here lol. |
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Enchirito
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
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ok..
ok..
this episode... was AWESOME. I was not expecting the reactions i'm reading here at all. It's almost like i watched a different episode than you guys!
let me try to explain...
the vision quest.
That was just awesome. Flat out. Weird? yes. But i didn't think it was out of character at all. I'm talking the real season 1 Locke. Not pussy season 2 button pusher Locke. As for his motivation, it made total sense to me that Locke would pull a total 360 from moment he arrived back at the camp. Look at the way he arrived. Determination. The stupid hatch and button had broken his crazy faith in the island. It backfired on him, literaly. He is now even more determinted than he was before the button, and that is like 110% crazy DETERMINATION.
the bear fight.
Now, I will admit this part did feel contrived and maybe even a bit silly. I'm not sure they needed to drama it up like that. Simply saving an unconcious echo from dying of his hatch wounds would have served the same purpose, but whatever. This is lost and i guess we needed to see some polar bears again.
"what the hell is up with Desmond?"
well, i think it's pretty obvious being at the center of the magnetic field implosion caused him to have a rebirth of some kind. He lost his clothes, and now seemingly understands things that have yet to happen. Notice how when Locke was giving his speech Des was throwing stones totally uninterested. Like he already new what was happening behind him. Desmond the White indeed. How is this not cool!! Desmond has been one of the most consistantly good characters/actors on Lost so far and i'm so glad he didn't just run off again. yet.
| Hobbes wrote: | | From Locke, I expected closure. Closure for a season of Lost that was... shall we say... rocky, at least on the Locke side. But I didn't get it. Whether it was because of the confusion, the flashbacks, or the weirdness, I didn't get that feeling like that entire season had any point at all - which I'd been hoping it would since the rough times began. That is why this episode let me down. It cleaned up the "mess", but didn't let us wallow in it and enjoy the process. A storyline was just concluded with one hastilly-scribbled paragraph. And even if I accept it here, I can't trust that any other death, struggle, conflict, or anything on Lost will ever have a point to it again. It'll just be a hasty kill, and a quick coverup afterwards... This ep has begun to make me stop caring.. and that is a sad sad thing. |
Wow, i really understand that. But heres the thing. I decided a little more than halfway throught season 2 that, well, this was going to be a shitty season for Locke. He was trapped in the hatch. I know the writers did this on purpose, but i still have absolutly no idea why. I honestly think this was a huge mistake. So no, I DON'T trust the writers. At all. So i wasn't waiting for an explaination for season 2. I was waiting for an ESCAPE from season 2. and i got it. It may have been a fast turn around, but i am so happy to get Locke back that i really don't give a shit.
But come on guys, don't you see how this episode is setting up season 3? There is major foreshadowing here and I like the way things are looking. I believe season 2 was written as a huge arc that would have been better told in a shorter season. But the great thing about season 3 it is being written as 2 arcs for the 2 chunks of the season. I would think this will make for a much better season overall.
But seriously, this episode is THE RETURN OF LOCKE. How is this bad?
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